Assigned ground altitude !

[Lennart Vedin]

Hello again forum after a long time 🙂

After flying 1000h at VATSIM, just learning by doing, the most odd ATC thing happened me.

During approach in Europe after cleared ILS but before captured, I was told, "Decent 2000 feet. (nothing more)" little suspicious since the highest ILS capture was 4500 feet, but I convinced myself that capture will be much closer to the airport then. 

Lucky the visibility was clear and I saw the frightening treetops 😰, then looking at the aerodrome chart, airport altitude is 1900 feet.

I called ATC and kindly but seriously questioning, mentioned the issue to assign 2000 feet when airport altitude is 1900 feet. The ATC told "that's on pilot discretion". 

Is this as real as it get, I mean is it a realistic ATC handling ?

Edited June 2, 2020 at 10:04 PM by Lennart Vedin
sequre integrity

[Andreas Fuchs]

You will need to get in touch with the VACC that the airport is located in. Not on a public forum...

[Alistair Thomson]

Andreas, are you sure that this a public forum? I do agree that the VACC needs to take action here, but from my perspective it's good to know that Vatsim ATC can be just like Vatsim pilots some times … :)

[Lennart Vedin]

It's not a VATSIM sarcasm from my side, I'm not an educated pilot, 1000h is hobby-flying. I can't argue with VACC but just mention I'm surprised. I just must to be sure if it is ever possible or not to give instructions this way ?

All in all it does not affect VATSIM at all, but just to know the avionics fact. Some rare unreal issues is nothing if just to know for sure what it should have been.

EDIT: Anyway I got other clear answers in other forums and I've sent the issue discrete to VACC to contact me (if they need to know details).   

Edited June 2, 2020 at 10:44 PM by Lennart Vedin

[Mike Sweeney]

When cleared for the ILS approach, maintain 4,600 until intercept, descend on the glide slope.


© Navigraph

For questions about ATC services, consider contacting the vACC directly.
*- To locate vACC contacts, www.vatsim.net | select About and click VATSIM Regions| click on Europe Region | select the Division | navigate to the relevant vACC website link. example list.

Hope this helps.

Edited June 2, 2020 at 11:18 PM by Mike Sweeney

[Lennart Vedin]

It has happened me more than once that with the current heading it will be impossible to intercept at the published 4600 feet in your case. But ATC has assigned a lower level instead of re-vector around.

And yes I have contact VACC, just wanted first to be sure it is unrealistic, that's a generic question, right 🙂   

[Andreas Fuchs]

12 hours ago, Alistair Thomson said:

Andreas, are you sure that this a public forum?

Yes, this is a public forum, you can read this thread without logging in to the forums, thus it's public.

 

12 hours ago, Lennart Vedin said:

I've sent the issue discrete to VACC to contact me (if they need to know details).

Perfect, that's the way to go.

 

4 hours ago, Lennart Vedin said:

It has happened me more than once that with the current heading it will be impossible to intercept at the published 4600 feet in your case.

Yes, as an ATCO this happens to me as well from time to time. But as an ATCO you certainly do not instruct pilots to descend to 100ft above the landing elevation to intercept the glideslope a litte bit further down the localizer! In the above shown diagram I'd have sent a pilot down to 3200ft - getting established later/lower than this altitude wouldn't be a good idea.

As flight crew it is also your responsibility (to stay alive) to monitor your navigation and to keep the big picture. We call this "situational awareness" and it is one of the most important things for pilots to build and to maintain, right after the coffee in the morning!

[Lennart Vedin]

22 minutes ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

Yes, as an ATCO this happens to me as well from time to time. But as an ATCO you certainly do not instruct pilots to descend to 100ft above the landing elevation to intercept the glideslope a litte bit further down the localizer! In the above shown diagram I'd have sent a pilot down to 3200ft - getting established later/lower than this altitude wouldn't be a good idea.

As flight crew it is also your responsibility (to stay alive) to monitor your navigation and to keep the big picture. We call this "situational awareness" and it is one of the most important things for pilots to build and to maintain, right after the coffee in the morning!

By the way, hello again Andreas after a long time 🙂 .

Yes I could have spot this issue myself by read the airport altitude earlier, be more observant to the extreme low assignment compare to the ideal. In addition I should have got MDA warning before decent even more.  Nevertheless this is a quick waking up situation for my full intention to never crash at VATSIM. 

However there are other scenario with topography that could have been more difficult for the pilot to avoid and be aware the vectoring problem leads to crash.

Best regards !

[Andreas Fuchs]

Aircraft have crashed for similar reasons in the real world, so why shouldn't it happen at VATSIM? Always be vigilant and never shy away from saying the two magic words: Going around!