TWRTrainer - QUESTION: Taxi via Runway?

[Mark Richards]

Ross

 

I'm looking at doing up an airport file for Auckland, New Zealand.

 

In Auckland the main taxiway is nicely disguised as RWY05L/23R but this "runway" is only used when 05R/23L is closed for WIP, otherwise it is the main taxiway.

 

Before I spend hours getting frustrated, is it possible to have an aircraft taxi via a runway, albeit a closed runway???

 

I guess the same question must be asked about "entering and back-tracking"

 

I've searched the manual and can't find a yay or nay answer but then it is 00:32 hours local.

 

Mark

[Ross Carlson]

Yes, runways can be used as part of a taxi instruction. TWRTrainer treats them just like taxiways. (It has no idea if a runway is closed or not.) The only difference is that if a runway is used as the last item in a taxi instruction (other than as a hold short instruction) then that runway will be the departure runway and thus the aircraft will not taxi on it. It will hold short of it until cleared for takeoff or told to position and hold.

 

Entering and backtracking usually isn't possible, but there are ways to trick it into working. If you send me your airport file and a sector file, I can tell you if it's possible given the layout.

[Andras Kiss 888081]

Is backtaxiing ever used at controlled airports? It seems hard to believe an airport with a tower would have a runway without a taxiway to the very end, but I have been proven wrong a gazillion times before....

[Jeff Clark]

Few examples:

 

At KBUR, the west parallel taxiway is too narrow for large jets to use it, and therefore large civilian turbojets (they do exist) often need to "back taxi into position and hold".

 

I think London City airport is another very good example of a busy field without a parallel taxiway.

[Robert Ogden 985378]

I listen to Boston Tower a lot (KBOS) and I've heard them approve backtaxing a lot. Primarily they use it when the aircraft holding short (#1) is delayed for some reason. They'll have the other aircraft taxi onto the runway at the next intersection and backtaxi into position for take-off

[John Lauer 969019]

I'm not sure if KJFK would generate the traffic, but in 'Real Life' when the rush is on (between 4:00PM and 7:00PM) and the winds are out of the north and the active runways are 4L and 4R, ATC will use 31R and 4R for landing and 4L for take off. When there are 35-40 airplanes cued for take off and there is only one runway active for departure, Tower would use both taxiway B and runway 13R as a taxiway to accommodate the cue.

[Andras Kiss 888081]

Ah thanks for the info.

 

By the way John, in your situation runway 13R is not active and thus has the same status as a taxiway.

[Mark Richards]

Yes, runways can be used as part of a taxi instruction. TWRTrainer treats them just like taxiways. (It has no idea if a runway is closed or not.) The only difference is that if a runway is used as the last item in a taxi instruction (other than as a hold short instruction) then that runway will be the departure runway and thus the aircraft will not taxi on it. It will hold short of it until cleared for takeoff or told to position and hold.

 

Entering and backtracking usually isn't possible, but there are ways to trick it into working. If you send me your airport file and a sector file, I can tell you if it's possible given the layout.

Thanks Ross, exactly the answer I was looking for. Hope to have the airport file completed this weekend, all things being equal.

 

Mark

[John Lauer 969019]

Ah thanks for the info.

 

By the way John, in your situation runway 13R is not active and thus has the same status as a taxiway.

 

The tower will have coordinated with Approach Control, Ground Control, and any other 'local' that is working the field to ensure that everyone knows that 13R is closed for landings and Takeoffs.

 

I have been given clearance from the American Gates at Gate 5 to taxi to runway 4L via B, runway 13R, K. Ground Control had B and Rwy 13R stacked with aircraft for departure on 4L. Ground utilized the Rwy to help manage the departure cue. There are times when departure control requests Tower to release aircraft that have departures in a particular quadrant. This is due to either weather considerations or Flow restrictions. When this situation develops, Ground control must jockey aircraft as best they can to allow the departures and hold the ones that are waiting for weather separation standards (usually 20NM) or Flow control.

[Mark Richards]

Is backtaxiing ever used at controlled airports? It seems hard to believe an airport with a tower would have a runway without a taxiway to the very end, but I have been proven wrong a gazillion times before....

It most certainly is at a number of airports in New Zealand and Australia. It really makes the Tower Controller earn their v$ as well.