Jump to content

Limitations and Workarounds: Flying CTP Eastbound 2020 with MS FS2020


Recommended Posts

I last participated on the CTP event for the last time many years ago and I enjoyed it greatly, I am really looking forward to doing it again this year with the renewed enthusiasm that a shiny new sim brings.

But there are some limitations that pilots will need know how to manage for an enjoyable VATSIMming experience crossing the pond, this thread is to collect advise and workarounds with regards to those limitations as they relate to the event later this year.

I don't claim to know but I have already invested a significant amount of time on the new sim specially on airliners, what I offer is to trigger the discussion and trying to summarize issues and solutions as the come up.

 

1. Aircraft-specific Notes: A320 Neo:

  • This is arguably the most stable/well understood airliner, 
  • Fuel burn is less than accurate,
  • Range ~3500nm?
  • ETOPS?
  • MCDU PLN Page entry cap

 

2. Aircraft-specific Notes: B747-8 Intercontinental:

  • MACH/Knots bug

 

3. Aircraft-specific Notes: 787 Dreamliner

  • I don't own it : )

 

3. FMS/MCDU and Planning Limitations:

  • Holding Patterns not modeled?
  • NAV DATA updates
  • Difficult to adjust plan in-flight

 

4. Flight Model/Sim Limitations:

  • Missing/incomplete airports
  • Model Matching
  • Livery Matching
  • CTD/Sim stability

 

5. Misc?

Edited by Diego Vasquez
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Board of Governors

Simple. DON'T use MSFS in this upcoming CTP. The default airliners aren't quite there just yet to handle the advanced navigation pilots will be expected to do in this event.  

It's going to cause unneeded stress on both pilot and controller.

  • Like 3
Matt Bartels
VP: Marketing & Communication
## vpmkt (at) vatsim.net
Facebook Twitter Instagram
VATSIM Logo

Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own and not representative of the official opinion of the VATSIM Board of Governors

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Matthew Bartels said:

Simple. DON'T use MSFS in this upcoming CTP. The default airliners aren't quite there just yet to handle the advanced navigation pilots will be expected to do in this event.  

It's going to cause unneeded stress on both pilot and controller.

The intention of this thread is/was for anybody else reading this forum who was considering Simming the CTP event using FS2020, for sharing tips and experiences in preparation. Maybe I was alone on that desire, let's see.

That said, If VATSIM Marketing or the CTP event organizers want to formally discourage and/or prohibit this - as you said to prevent "...unneeded stress on both pilot and controller" or for whatever other reasons, I suggest an announcement using appropriate channels.

Until then, could I respectfully request to keep this humble thread on topic as described above? From my end and on the same line of thought, I am keeping to myself my own opinions about your reply.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Without telling people not to use the sim (it's their prerogative), it is important to be aware of the limitations. I speak here from an oceanic perspective.

Pilots need to be aware of the increased potential for ATC to issue a re-route, which may be a huge problem if you can't change the route in the sim. It's going to be a headache for all involved if we desperately need you to do something that you can't actually do because of the limited functionality available in the default airliners. Another example being if we tell you a Mach speed, but you can only program IAS because of some bug in the aircraft, then that's going to be a massive problem. If you have X-Plane or P3D, or even FSX, I strongly recommend using those for any oceanic crossing until there are some decent airliners available for the MSFS platform.

That being said, if you still want to use MSFS, or if it is your only simulator, then I would advise looking into alternate navigation mods (I believe there is an addon for the Garmin, not quite sure) that may allow you some more flexibility and control. I'm sure there are some people with more experience than me regarding this.

Cheers,

Edited by Andrew Ogden

Andrew Ogden | I3
Gander Oceanic OCA Chief
VATSIM Web Developer

Visit us: https://ganderoceanic.com
Contact: [email protected] 

431466725_bannersmall.png.dd3c45679f76aeb32af4d6ff6fb9854a.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

If your aircraft is not able to maintain a Target Mach Number, you can calculate the IAS (indicated airspeed) that is needed to maintain a given Mach Number.

https://aerotoolbox.com/airspeed-conversions/

In this converter

  1. enter your current altitude in feet
  2. activate and insert the temperature difference from ISA (international standard atmosphere). E.g. if you are at FL350 the ISA temperature is about -54 deg C static air temperature (SAT). Determine your current SAT and then enter the difference from the indicated ISA. Do not mistake it with the measured total air temperature (TAT)! If it is colder than standard, for example -57 deg C, then type "-3" in this box
  3. activate the slider next to "Mach Number" and then type your target Mach Number, e.g. "0.82"
  4. read out the required EAS (more or less equal to IAS) and set it as target speed to maintain
  5. read out the expected TAS to verify you are flying the right speed
  6. every 15 minutes review your static air temperature SAT for significant changes and start over the process to determine your required IAS and TAS.

 

In our example, Mach 0.82 at FL350 with SAT -57 deg C requires an EAS/IAS of 279 KTS and should result in a TAS of 469 KTS.

Edited by Andreas Fuchs
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I do like where this original poster's head is.  Instead of just plowing forward into Cross The Pond with a semi-functional aircraft, he's advocating getting to know those aircraft's limitations and suggesting workarounds.  Trust me, I flew my first CTP with the FSX default 747 (yes, REALLY!) and so I know how much extra work it is to fly a plane in an event that doesn't do as much as everyone else's does.

That being said, all of the above advice boils down to one thing: DO NOT FLY CTP IN AN AIRCRAFT YOU ARE NOT INTENSELY FAMILIAR WITH.  And I don't just mean the aircraft in general; I mean THAT SPECIFIC SIMULATION OF THAT AIRCRAFT.  **DO** fly CTP in an aircraft you have done at least a dozen successful flights in.

Additionally, and this applies to flying CTP in anything from a default jet to a fully-"study-level" payware add-on: understand that there is always, ALWAYS, more than one way to accomplish what you've just been asked to do by ATC.  Mach hold acting up?  Convert it to IAS.  VNAV not working right?  Put it in VS hold and manage the power and climb/descent rate by hand.  Can't seem to amend the route to a shortcutted fix up ahead?  Eyeball your heading from your present position and use HDG mode.  Can't program the hold?  Again, HDG mode is your friend -- fly to the hold fix, dial in a heading 180 degrees from the inbound track, count to 60 once you reach it, and then turn and track back to the fix again.  FMC not accepting your approach assignment?  Dial it into the NAV1 and fly it by the needles.  Absolute-worst-case, SHUT THE AP OFF AND USE THE AILERONS, ELEVATORS, AND THROTTLES.

If you're not comfortable doing all of what I just said, it's not a problem!  You've got 31 days, 18 hours, and 10 minutes to practice.

Edited by Robert Shearman Jr
  • Like 3

Cheers,

-R.

fvJfs7z.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Additionally, and this applies to flying CTP in anything from a default jet to a fully-"study-level" payware add-on: understand that there is always, ALWAYS, more than one way to accomplish what you've just been asked to do by ATC.  Mach hold acting up?  Convert it to IAS.  VNAV not working right?  Put it in VS hold and manage the power and climb/descent rate by hand.  Can't seem to amend the route to a shortcutted fix up ahead?  Eyeball your heading from your present position and use HDG mode.  Can't program the hold?  Again, HDG mode is your friend -- fly to the hold fix, dial in a heading 180 degrees from the inbound track, count to 60 once you reach it, and then turn and track back to the fix again.  FMC not accepting your approach assignment?  Dial it into the NAV1 and fly it by the needles.  Absolute-worst-case, SHUT THE AP OFF AND USE THE AILERONS, ELEVATORS, AND THROTTLES.

Hah, sounds like someone has watched Children Of The Magenta Line...

  • Like 1
23.png
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/13/2020 at 1:49 PM, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Honestly, I do like where this original poster's head is.  Instead of just plowing forward into Cross The Pond with a semi-functional aircraft, he's advocating getting to know those aircraft's limitations and suggesting workarounds.  Trust me, I flew my first CTP with the FSX default 747 (yes, REALLY!) and so I know how much extra work it is to fly a plane in an event that doesn't do as much as everyone else's does.

That being said, all of the above advice boils down to one thing: DO NOT FLY CTP IN AN AIRCRAFT YOU ARE NOT INTENSELY FAMILIAR WITH.  And I don't just mean the aircraft in general; I mean THAT SPECIFIC SIMULATION OF THAT AIRCRAFT.  **DO** fly CTP in an aircraft you have done at least a dozen successful flights in.

Additionally, and this applies to flying CTP in anything from a default jet to a fully-"study-level" payware add-on: understand that there is always, ALWAYS, more than one way to accomplish what you've just been asked to do by ATC.  Mach hold acting up?  Convert it to IAS.  VNAV not working right?  Put it in VS hold and manage the power and climb/descent rate by hand.  Can't seem to amend the route to a shortcutted fix up ahead?  Eyeball your heading from your present position and use HDG mode.  Can't program the hold?  Again, HDG mode is your friend -- fly to the hold fix, dial in a heading 180 degrees from the inbound track, count to 60 once you reach it, and then turn and track back to the fix again.  FMC not accepting your approach assignment?  Dial it into the NAV1 and fly it by the needles.  Absolute-worst-case, SHUT THE AP OFF AND USE THE AILERONS, ELEVATORS, AND THROTTLES.

If you're not comfortable doing all of what I just said, it's not a problem!  You've got 31 days, 18 hours, and 10 minutes to practice.

Thank you Robert, that was exactly my point; I also agree when you say that other aircraft, payware or even well established sims have issues/limitations.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/13/2020 at 12:49 PM, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Honestly, I do like where this original poster's head is.  Instead of just plowing forward into Cross The Pond with a semi-functional aircraft, he's advocating getting to know those aircraft's limitations and suggesting workarounds.  Trust me, I flew my first CTP with the FSX default 747 (yes, REALLY!) and so I know how much extra work it is to fly a plane in an event that doesn't do as much as everyone else's does.

That being said, all of the above advice boils down to one thing: DO NOT FLY CTP IN AN AIRCRAFT YOU ARE NOT INTENSELY FAMILIAR WITH.  And I don't just mean the aircraft in general; I mean THAT SPECIFIC SIMULATION OF THAT AIRCRAFT.  **DO** fly CTP in an aircraft you have done at least a dozen successful flights in.

Additionally, and this applies to flying CTP in anything from a default jet to a fully-"study-level" payware add-on: understand that there is always, ALWAYS, more than one way to accomplish what you've just been asked to do by ATC.  Mach hold acting up?  Convert it to IAS.  VNAV not working right?  Put it in VS hold and manage the power and climb/descent rate by hand.  Can't seem to amend the route to a shortcutted fix up ahead?  Eyeball your heading from your present position and use HDG mode.  Can't program the hold?  Again, HDG mode is your friend -- fly to the hold fix, dial in a heading 180 degrees from the inbound track, count to 60 once you reach it, and then turn and track back to the fix again.  FMC not accepting your approach assignment?  Dial it into the NAV1 and fly it by the needles.  Absolute-worst-case, SHUT THE AP OFF AND USE THE AILERONS, ELEVATORS, AND THROTTLES.

If you're not comfortable doing all of what I just said, it's not a problem!  You've got 31 days, 18 hours, and 10 minutes to practice.

I agree with this. I fly all the time successfully on MS2020 and VATSIM. I use the A320NX mod which adds a ton of capability and Navigraph in case I have to fly an approach manually cause the FMC does not always work as desired. So far no issues and you can't beat the visuals! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...