Y/Z flight plans

[Christoph Reule]

Hi all,

what's the (current) "standard procedure" to file Y and/or Z flight plans?

Right now, it's not possible to file such flight plans directly neither from within the pilot client (in my case xPilot) nor within myVatsim (flight plan prefile).

Of course I can e. g. file an IFR flight plan and write as first part of the route "VFR", however I consider this a not really ideal "workaround".

Any thoughts?

[Andreas Fuchs]

You file VFR with a change of flight rules inflight in your route-box. If ATC is online you request that change with them. Otherwise you just change your FPL from VFR to IFR when you are at the change-point. It's not perfect, but it is a way.

[Christoph Reule]

Hi Andreas,

this sounds like a good compromise to me. Thanks for pointing out!

Nevertheless I hope filing "true" Y/Z flight plans will be possible some time in the future.

[Magnus Meese]

Yep, file your initial flight rules then indicate "IFR" or "VFR" in the route. In any case it's really what happens on frequency which is of any interest to ATC, when you make the request all I'm worried about is how it affects the immediate situation around you (aircraft, airspace, terrain, etc), not how well it was worded in the FP.

I can understand people finding joy in emulating real life with filing intricate flightplans, especially for GA, but from the perspective of doing ATC I couldn't give a toss about those once you're in my bit of air as I just keep you safe and legal according to the rules I have to follow and then get you as close to your request as I can. My real life unit doesn't even have access to full flightplans, only what we need for normal ops (the not-on-frequency Search and Rescue aspect for all filed flightplans is handled by a own section at the ACC). For VFR, and IFR from class G, we start with a blank strip and put down whatever the pilot says and go from there. You can swap flight rules until you go dizzy for all we care as long as you're not pointing at anything dodgy.

[Duarte Gomes]

I just came across this doubt myself today. I'm doing a world tour on a King Air 350i and while flying through Turkey, having departed from LTAC Ankara, filed a IFR flight plan route to GAP VOR near Sanliurfa I intended to proceed on VFR to Gobekli Tepe before going back to LTCS Sanliurfa.

I then put the flight plan route as follows:

KUBER UG8 GEM UW73 ERH UW103 BADEM DCT GAP VFR GOBEKLI TEPE

I don't know whether this is the correct way or not, but well, that's what I did, but didn't get any ATC online either 😅

[Andreas Fuchs]

For an IFR flightplan route you should only use the identifiers of navigation stations (VOR, NDB), waypoints (usually 5 characters) and airways. "GOBEKELI TEPE" is the plain name of an airport. You either fill in the ICAO code of the airport instead, or a navigation station at the airfield. In any case, the ICAO code of this airport must be filed as destination in the flightplan.

[Duarte Gomes]

Gobekli Tepe is a landmark near the city of Sanliurfa. LTCS (the destination airport) is the airport that serves the city. It's the same as saying that I was flying to KJFK but before landing, I would fly a VFR part to the Statue of Liberty or Empire State Building or any other monument/landmark. And yes, I had LTCS as my destination airport.

Edited July 17, 2021 at 08:21 PM by Duarte Gomes

[Andreas Fuchs]

Ok, thanks for the information. I personally would not include this piece of information in the VFR-part of my flightplan.

[Magnus Meese]

@Duarte Gomes: That is exactly right, after VFR you can write nothing at all, "dct", or as many points as you like (which can be freetext landmark names, VRP names, IFR points, or even coordinates). IRL this is mostly to aid Search and Rescue to pinpoint where to look for you should you be going missing, as in live operations we're far more interested in what you tell us on the radio than what is written on a strip.

Should you want to start VFR then go IFR, you do the same thing in reverse, except the "IFR" comes after the point where IFR is planned to start, like this example route EGCB to EGKB: "Thelwall Viaduct DCT Windsford Flash DCT SANBA/N0180F090 IFR N859 HON".

I don't know why Andreas wouldn't want to include any routing info after indicating "VFR", maybe he's hoping to make a Bear Grylls-style TV-show if he ever has to do a forced landing, and thus don't want to be found too quickly? 😉

[Andreas Fuchs]

1 hour ago, Magnus Meese said:

  I don't know why Andreas wouldn't want to include any routing info after indicating "VFR", maybe he's hoping to make a Bear Grylls-style TV-show if he ever has to do a forced landing, and thus don't want to be found too quickly? 😉

Because on VATSIM you cannot get lost, you are always visible to ATC.

In the real world, some countries don't allow those landmarks and ask you to use IFR reporting points, or vice versa.

And when I do a forced landing I call someone by (SAT)phone 😝

 

Edited July 22, 2021 at 09:30 PM by Andreas Fuchs

[Mateusz Zymla]

On 7/17/2021 at 1:18 AM, Duarte Gomes said:

I just came across this doubt myself today. I'm doing a world tour on a King Air 350i and while flying through Turkey, having departed from LTAC Ankara, filed a IFR flight plan route to GAP VOR near Sanliurfa I intended to proceed on VFR to Gobekli Tepe before going back to LTCS Sanliurfa.

I then put the flight plan route as follows:

KUBER UG8 GEM UW73 ERH UW103 BADEM DCT GAP VFR GOBEKLI TEPE

I don't know whether this is the correct way or not, but well, that's what I did, but didn't get any ATC online either 😅

For the sake of ICAO-compliant Field 15 filling, I'd suggest doing it this way: 3713N03855E and then, in Remarks section (simulate ICAO Field 18) put RMK/3713N03855E GOBEKLI TEPE.

So the "ROUTE" would look like this: KUBER UG8 GEM UW73 ERH UW103 BADEM DCT GAP VFR DCT 3713N03855E.

Putting city names/landscapes/VRP's differ from country to country, can't relate with Turkey (best way would be to check Turkish AIP), but coordinates way is the safest one all around world, imho.

Edited July 23, 2021 at 09:13 AM by Mateusz Zymla

[Duarte Gomes]

Well well, thank you all three of you for such great explanations and tips!
I think indeed the best way would be indded putting the coordinates as per the mentioned document just above.

Just to addo some extra realism, it would be great if VATSIM implements Y/Z flight plans someday. From a friend of mine who flies on IVAO, I know they already have it for a few time now. I haven't flown on IVAO since 2006 or 2007 (by that time started to fly offline with AI traffic and my accounts have been deactivated due to being unused, both on IVAO and VATSIM and when I decided to come back online, I only activated the VATSIM account).
Once again, thanks for all your tips!