Michael LaRosh Posted March 31, 2021 at 05:12 AM Posted March 31, 2021 at 05:12 AM (edited) As pilots I'm sure we have all ran into this. You are flying, you were sent a contact me by a controller and you contact them as requested. But when the controller responds, they ID themselves with a different name. For example you are flying into Dulles (KIAD) and the contact me you got was from IAD_APP. When you contact IAD_APP you said "Dulles Approach (Callsign) ….". But then the controller responds with "(Callsign) Potomac Approach …. ". To alleviate this would you like if the radio name with the frequency displayed is in the pilot clients and maps? Instead of currently New/Suggested format Albuquerque Center - 127.850 LA/Los Angeles Center - 125.8 Houston Center - 123.650 Socal Approach - 124.500 Socal Departure - 124.300 and so on Edited March 31, 2021 at 05:13 AM by michael LaRosh Michael LaRosh vZHU EC and MTR [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Jenkins Posted March 31, 2021 at 07:23 AM Posted March 31, 2021 at 07:23 AM It’s one of those things, in my opinion, that you learn with time and experience. Those callsigns are what ATC logs on with and I can imagine the programming nightmare it would be to find out every possible log-on and change all that or convert it to “pilot friendly” names. Then you also need to consider the fact that the ATC callsign can change depending on what other controllers are online (e.g. CYVR_APP is “Vancouver Terminal” until CYVR_DEP is also online in which case CYVR_APP then becomes “Vancouver Arrival”). Sometimes letters or numbers can be appended to the callsigns and could mean different things (e.g. _S_ in the callsign could mean “student” or “south” depending on the context) so having vpilot/xpilot/swift figure that out on the fly may be near impossible. Often the controllers’ spoken callsign can be found in the controllers’ info/remarks (right click on the callsign in vpilot and click “request controller info” I believe). At the end of the day getting the spoken callsign right the first time isn’t a big deal and ATC generally doesn’t really care either. Heck, I’ve been called Toronto Center while working CYVR_TWR before. 1 Josh Jenkins CZVR I1 controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaRosh Posted March 31, 2021 at 08:02 AM Author Posted March 31, 2021 at 08:02 AM 27 minutes ago, Josh Jenk said: It’s one of those things, in my opinion, that you learn with time and experience. Those callsigns are what ATC logs on with and I can imagine the programming nightmare it would be to find out every possible log-on and change all that or convert it to “pilot friendly” names. Then you also need to consider the fact that the ATC callsign can change depending on what other controllers are online (e.g. CYVR_APP is “Vancouver Terminal” until CYVR_DEP is also online in which case CYVR_APP then becomes “Vancouver Arrival”). Sometimes letters or numbers can be appended to the callsigns and could mean different things (e.g. _S_ in the callsign could mean “student” or “south” depending on the context) so having vpilot/xpilot/swift figure that out on the fly may be near impossible. Often the controllers’ spoken callsign can be found in the controllers’ info/remarks (right click on the callsign in vpilot and click “request controller info” I believe). At the end of the day getting the spoken callsign right the first time isn’t a big deal and ATC generally doesn’t really care either. Heck, I’ve been called Toronto Center while working CYVR_TWR before. To some extent this is wrote from a US prospective. In the since of where we have big consolidated Terminal (APP/DEP) areas where we sign in as something that's no where close to our spoken callsign. Then on the controller info front. As a fellow controller the problem there is that as we know not all pilots bother to check ATC INFO. Witch in turn causes ATC not to post. So its a cycle that I we can fic by making this change. Michael LaRosh vZHU EC and MTR [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Shearman Jr Posted March 31, 2021 at 04:43 PM Posted March 31, 2021 at 04:43 PM (edited) As a controller in ZDC where we have that big Potomac Consolidated TRACON (the exact example you used), I agree with Josh that it really isn't that big a deal that we need to spend a ton of programming resources to fix. Potomac covers BWI, IAD, DCA, RIC, and satellites. Whether a ZDC APP/DEP controller is covering all of those sectors, some of those sectors, or only one of those sectors depends on whether they've been trained and certified on certain pieces of the airspace, as well as what other APP/DEP controllers are online and splitting coverage with them. The same thing happens in SoCal, NorCal, New York, and Boston, among others. Being called "Baltimore Approach" instead of "Potomac Approach" is not that huge a problem. Real-world pilots occasionally do it too (reference the linked video below). So I'm not sure why it's a huge issue that needs to be fixed. ). Edited March 31, 2021 at 04:44 PM by Robert Shearman Jr Cheers, -R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Rey Posted March 31, 2021 at 06:47 PM Posted March 31, 2021 at 06:47 PM Josh touched on this, but chect the controller info first. In vPilot you can double-click the callsign. I know that, at least for the UK, it usually includes the callsign in the first line. New and want some help? Send me a message on Discord at GoodCrossing#4907! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Rider Posted March 31, 2021 at 07:55 PM Posted March 31, 2021 at 07:55 PM I agree with the general sentiment of the thread in that this is such a small issue that there really is no reason to divert resources to it. As Robert said above, pilots call various ATC facilities by the wrong name, even after being told the name of the facility by the transferring controller. There are plenty of resources already available to pilots to figure out the proper callsign, from the controller's info to my personal favorite, the charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Littlejohn Posted March 31, 2021 at 09:00 PM Posted March 31, 2021 at 09:00 PM 1 hour ago, Dustin Rider said: I agree with the general sentiment of the thread in that this is such a small issue that there really is no reason to divert resources to it. As Robert said above, pilots call various ATC facilities by the wrong name, even after being told the name of the facility by the transferring controller. There are plenty of resources already available to pilots to figure out the proper callsign, from the controller's info to my personal favorite, the charts. The bold is very true. If the pilot is using any type of chart for their flight, the proper callsign is depicted on the chart. In the US, you should see the frequencies and applicable callsigns in the top left or top right of every chart, including what the position is named. BL. Brad Littlejohn ZLA Senior Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Wood Posted April 1, 2021 at 12:12 AM Posted April 1, 2021 at 12:12 AM I often find radars in Europe quite confusing. It may look like approach, but is actually radar - and when there are multiple radars online it can get a bit overwelming, especially if one is new. That being said, it is something that I just got used to with time. If I'm in unfamiliar airspace, at an unfamiliar airport, or in any way unsure, the .atis (callsign) is the first thing I look at. Personally, it's quite disappointing when nothing shows up on it - I've found quite a few twitch streams thanks to this, especially in the US. Random observation - the other night I noticed a ton of controllers in Toronto using their vatsim ID instead of their name. Is this a new thing? Or maybe vatspy was having some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauri Uusitalo Posted April 1, 2021 at 09:34 AM Posted April 1, 2021 at 09:34 AM 14 hours ago, Samuel Rey said: Josh touched on this, but chect the controller info first. In vPilot you can double-click the callsign. I know that, at least for the UK, it usually includes the callsign in the first line. Same with xPilot. That is what I use to check the callsign first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Shearman Jr Posted April 1, 2021 at 12:28 PM Posted April 1, 2021 at 12:28 PM 12 hours ago, Tyler Wood said: Random observation - the other night I noticed a ton of controllers in Toronto using their vatsim ID instead of their name. Is this a new thing? Or maybe vatspy was having some issues. It became allowable with the most recent overhaul of the Code of Conduct (I think maybe a year-and-a-half ago or so?) to sign on with (a) your full name, (b) your full name but a common shortening of your first name (such as Rob instead of Robert), (c) *just* your first name or a common shortening, or (d) just your CID. There was a big discussion in here about how it has depersonalized the network some -- but in the name of protecting minors and others who don't want their identity stalked, it's something we have to allow. Cheers, -R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Christie Posted April 2, 2021 at 03:14 AM Posted April 2, 2021 at 03:14 AM (edited) Edited April 2, 2021 at 03:20 AM by Kirk Christie Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3 VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Wood Posted April 2, 2021 at 07:55 AM Posted April 2, 2021 at 07:55 AM 19 hours ago, Robert Shearman Jr said: It became allowable with the most recent overhaul of the Code of Conduct (I think maybe a year-and-a-half ago or so?) to sign on with (a) your full name, (b) your full name but a common shortening of your first name (such as Rob instead of Robert), (c) *just* your first name or a common shortening, or (d) just your CID. There was a big discussion in here about how it has depersonalized the network some -- but in the name of protecting minors and others who don't want their identity stalked, it's something we have to allow. I personally don't have an issue with it, but can understand. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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