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Understood. And readback is only required to confirm to ATC that the transmission was received correctly. With text PDC that will be the case. But Rob seemed to suggest that even readbacks of voice PDCs were not required.

Alistair Thomson

===

Definition: a gentleman is a flying instructor in a Piper Cherokee who can change tanks without getting his face slapped.

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11 minutes ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

ugh, what is a "voice PDC"?

Ah, right. I had assumed that PDC meant "pre-departure clearance" as per Alex's example out of JFK. Do I have that wrong?

Alistair Thomson

===

Definition: a gentleman is a flying instructor in a Piper Cherokee who can change tanks without getting his face slapped.

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To confirm, I was indeed referring to the text form, which (as mentioned) is considered acknowledged when the pilot squawks the assigned code.  Kirk seemed to imply that no time was saved by redirecting pilots to double check PMs, and I disagree.

Cheers,

-R.

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The wonders of abbreviation. A pre-departure clearance is not a PDC unless it is in text form, but both things convey the same information... and the voice version must be read back because ATC requires proof that the voice message was received correctly, whereas the text version is presumed (technology notwithstanding) to have been received if the pilot confirms that by setting the correct squawk code.

Would a voice message from the pilot saying something like "PDC received" or "Roger PDC" be equally acceptable?

Alistair Thomson

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Definition: a gentleman is a flying instructor in a Piper Cherokee who can change tanks without getting his face slapped.

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2 minutes ago, Alistair Thomson said:

Would a voice message from the pilot saying something like "PDC received" or "Roger PDC" be equally acceptable?

Sure, but it is not required. Just set the assigned transponder code and ATC is aware of your PDC-status. Other than PDC, if you get clearance by DCL, you are back to a closed-loop message that you need to acknowledge within your interface. In this case ATC would receive information that you have acknowledged the clearance.

The current PDC-solution by Hoppie is doing exactly this: you have to reply through your ACARS.

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3 hours ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Kirk seemed to imply that no time was saved by redirecting pilots to double check PMs, and I disagree.

Thats fine, opinions are subjective, and everyone is entitled to them.

This is a global community, PDC readbacks are required in some jurisdictions.

Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3

VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent

Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member

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I find the PDC a very useful tool, even when not real busy. And if my airport charts show PDC's are used then pilots should expect it. A lot of experienced pilots are very efficient in reading back a clearance as their planning and knowledge gives them a leg up because they know what will be given by CD. However, it never fails, I have one on approach vectors and a pilot calls for clearance and in 5 or 6 seconds I give it. Then the VATSIM little experienced pilot gives a 30 second response full of ER's and UH's and then questions about what he heard. By that time, the approaching guy is out of position or worse. The PDC allows the lesser experienced guy digest the material with no talking needed and we are both happy. Or, I could, I suppose, expecting the worse, not give clearances when anyone is on a vectored approach.

The fact that it is a message is of no matter cause Contactme is a message and both are needed VATSIMism's.

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Ed Sterling

ZAB C3/G-EDCS

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