Selecting Aircraft Livery

[Alexander Polcher]

Dear Gents,

thank you initially for providing vPilot and a continuous improvement.

Besides the opportunity to select an airframe, is there a possibility to read out the correct livery and show it? It would be highly appreciated to select the correct tailsign or at least the type of the livery.

Condor for example has a standard livery (see D-AICE: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinhackert/51168921603/in/photolist-2kXC6Gg-2kWRjLy-2kWDon9-2kG9RB9-2m2pRSe-2m1CK2z-2kY9FmP-2kXAVNP-2kXGwY2-2kNJF1w-2kGsfdm-2kGsf7V-2kGsf6N-2kLTziY-2kHMDrN-2kGmphG-2kGhhTQ-2kDFme3-2kD6c1F-2kD2A87-2kwScZM-2kwxVP2-2kwtH4g-2kwxVNv-2kwxUdm-2koWfHy-2khy4G4-2khuhDX-2kh967X-2k4JKFS-2k4JKF1-2k4J7gR-2kvTngG-2kt4bYn-2ks1fjh-2ks4YLU-2krZwza-2kqzmA9-2kbQciA-2k9e4mW-2k8Tctp-2k8URCC-2k6nkvB-2k4Ensc-2k4vruh-2k4uJAs-2k3gom8-2k3b29S-2jYN7Wf-2jQ75i2) but one special livery (see D-AICH: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dabianco87/31378624436/).

Could you at least implement the possibility to select such non-standard liveries or distinguish between which to be used, for example Lufthansa old colours and new colours?

Best Regards,

Alexander

[Ross Carlson]

We all want this ... the problem is that there is no standard set of liveries that all VATSIM users use. Every VATSIM user is free to use their own set of models for model matching. So there is no way for you to specify a special livery and have other pilots be able to see you in that livery.

[Alexander Polcher]

Hey Ross,

thank you for your response. Still, I can't see the problem.

The A320 fleet of Lufthansa consists for example of two different main colours (OC and NC) and some special liveries:

Why isn't there a dataset included where user can assign those liveries, if you don't provide it, by hand? The fallback area would be to take a random Lufthansa livery if this dataset isn't used - more or less like at the moment.

Edited June 17, 2021 at 05:53 PM by Alexander Polcher

[Ross Carlson]

How would vPilot (or any other pilot client) know which of the user's installed models maps to each of those liveries?

Edited June 18, 2021 at 05:09 AM by Ross Carlson

[Alexander Polcher]

What is the difference to the current one?

Currently the folder FLAI_A320cfm consists of two folder:

• FAIB_A320_CFM_T (Standard livery)
• Retro (D-AICH)

Obviously the standard is that vPilot takes the Condor folder if this aircraft is select and randomly the Retro folder. If you apply a modifiable open source database where users (or devs) could, beyond selecting only "Condor" as well sub-levels of liveries, which are only shown if the correct .vmr file is installed, you wouldn't even have to work on the database but move it to the user/dev, right?

I really don't see the issue. Doesn't IVAO offer this feature for years already?

The vmr file basically consits of a model matching set based on aircraft types - it simply needs one more sub-level.

Example AUA A319:

<ModelMatchRule CallsignPrefix="AUA" TypeCode="A319" ModelName="FLAi_FAIB_A319CFM_AUA-Austrian_NC//FLAi_FAIB_A319CFM_AUA-Austrian_OC" />

Example AUA A319 Sub-Level:

a) ICAO-Code "AUA" / Type "A319" / Livery "New" -> Textureset "NC"

b) ICAO-Code "AUA" / Type "A319" / Livery "New" -> Textureset "OC"

Additionally there must be a fallback area: "If livery set is not existing, choose randomly a livery from ICAO Code "AUA". Basically like it's now.

Edited June 18, 2021 at 08:35 AM by Alexander Polcher

[Ross Carlson]

What you're calling a "sublevel", I would call a "livery code". If all you're suggesting is adding another criterion to the VMR files, that would be very simple. However, that still leaves a lot of work for each individual vPilot user to make a custom VMR file specific to the set of models and textures that they have installed.

And before that could even be done, someone would have to generate this database of livery codes. There simply is no standard for that yet. We have a standard for aircraft type code and airline code, but nothing for livery code. That's why vPilot currently uses only aircraft type code and airline code for model matching. vPilot can scan your installed models and determine the aircraft type code and airline code that each one represents, but there is no way for vPilot to scan your models and determine which livery code each one represents.

So, sure, I can add livery code as another criterion for model matching, but first someone would need to create the standard list of livery codes and then each user would need to build a VMR file that lists all of their installed models and the aircraft type code, airline code, and livery code that each one represents, since vPilot cannot generate that automatically. Most users will not bother and just stick with the model matching rules that vPilot generates automatically by scanning your installed models.

I don't know much about IVAO, but I know that they developed their own model set so everyone has the same models, and that makes model matching MUCH simpler. You can easily build a set of livery codes for users to choose from when you know exactly what models and liveries are available on everyone's computers. No need for VMR files. We almost got to that point with FLAi, but that project was unfortunately torpedoed by the model suppliers not allowing their models to be distributed through any third party channels.

The swift client developers have built a crowd-sourced database of model info which includes an attempt at standardizing livery data, but the last time I checked with them, the livery data was very incomplete.

TL;DR: if VATSIM (or someone) develops a standard set of livery codes and a database of all the popular model sets containing the aircraft type code, airline code, and livery code that each model represents, I can implement that in vPilot.

[Michael Flemming Hansen]

Would it be possible to get ones own personal livery added to the vPilot/xPilot database, if I can make the liveries and add them to the archive file myself?

Just out of curiosity. How are the current liveries selected when I, for example, choose to fly in a A321Neo with SAS livery?

Sincerely,

Michael Hansen

 

Edited August 14, 2021 at 07:00 PM by Michael Flemming Hansen

[Ross Carlson]

20 minutes ago, Michael Flemming Hansen said:

Would it be possible to get ones own personal livery added to the vPilot/xPilot database, if I can make the liveries and add them to the archive file myself?

What database and archive file are you referring to?

20 minutes ago, Michael Flemming Hansen said:

Just out of curiosity. How are the current liveries selected when I, for example, choose to fly in a A321Neo with SAS livery?

The vPilot documentation describes the model matching process.

[Michael Flemming Hansen]

17 hours ago, Ross Carlson said:

The vPilot documentation describes the model matching process.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. The model matching is done by vPilot/xPilot making a list of all the known models and liveries in a persons sim (X Plane 11, in my case) and when I encounter a person with a model/livery that matches that airplane, it will show up as that airplane?

So in order for someone to see my personal livery in X Plane 11, they would just have to have my livery installed and have the same aircraft as an AI? Likewise, if I wanted them to see my personal livery in P3D or MSFS2020, I would need to create liveries in those formats and share them. 

Sincerely,
Michael Hansen

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Essentially yes.  Your Pilot Client takes each other player's callsign and aircraft type, and decides what the closest matching aircraft in YOUR sim's library is to represent that player with.

vPilot has a series of customizable rules (called VMRs) you can configure in order to override the app's default logic for deciding what constitutes "closest match."  xPilot has a file called "related.txt" you can edit in order to associate certain aircraft types with other similar ones but the overall matching logic in xPilot is not as transparent as vPilot.

If you have a custom livery, such as for a VA that isn't modeled after a real airline, you'd have to share that livery around to everyone and they'd have to have a custom model match rule so their sim knows who to represent with it.  Only those who install it and configure their clients will see it.  There's a good chance that most players around you will see you as whatever THEIR Pilot Client decides is the "closest match."  Not much you can do about it.  Don't stress over it.

Hope that helps you understand the basics.