AFISO/Aerodrome radio operation

[Alistair Lynn]

Hi friends & colleagues,

While this is admittedly an area that current policy has little to say about, there are plenty of aerodromes worldwide which have no local/tower/air control, but do have air/ground radio operation, which can offer aerodrome information—either limited or full FIS with alerting—as well as traffic reports and relay (but not issue) clearances from en-route controllers.

Under the GCAP offering such a service would mean operating as _TWR and thus require an S2. Given the non (or less-) safety critical nature of the role, observations:

1. Since full aerodrome control isn't being provided, it may be excessive to require an S2 to operate this position (and VATSIM UK has current limited provisions for having these positions staffed by S1s),
2. Operating radio positions may present a useful learning opportunity for S1s to practice talking to circuit traffic without needing to offer full control services,
3. An alternative (non _TWR) suffix here may be more clear to pilots about what service they can expect.

Is this something which could be accommodated within the GCAP?

[Matthew Bartels]

This is what the FSS position really does. It was limited to S3 due to tech limitations but there is an avenue to have this be an S1 function. We just could not utilize the FSS suffix. It would need be something like _TWR. All of the suffixes are hard coded and that is what makes some of this really hard. 

The new technology in development fixes these issues and would grant us a lot more freedom in how we can sign onto positions.

[Graham Drabble]

We should definitely not do anything to make the current situation worse here. Current UK policy allows S1's with a FISO accrediation to open XXX_I_TWR which provides a FISO or A/G service where that's what exists IRL

There's also positions such as London Information and Scottish Information. IRL these are manned by FISOs and don't (officially) have radar. They can and do provide info regarding altimitry, coordinate joining into CAS and other pertinent info but don't issue control insturctions. Currently to open these under GRP needs a C1 so they're never opened. This would be an ideal opportunity to let these be opened by an endorsed S2. (Yes, technically you'd probably end up with it being an _CTR position but there's only policy at the moment stopping an S2 opening a CTR position so changing policy to allow some to be opened if you have the accreditation wouldn't be technically hard.

We need to be careful that we don't make VatSim basically a network purely for airliners and ignore GA. Unlike in USA there's a big divide between GA "ATC" and CAS ATC in UK

(for those less familar with UK airspace these are all Class G airspace. No air traffic control instructions are given, however info such as weather and known traffic will be passed. FISO controls taxiways as well. Pilot retains full responsibility for separation in air / on runways.)

[Matthew Bartels]

This is what we were trying to get at with FSS but a technical limitation forbids it for ratings less than S3. An S2 can open only as high as approach or departure.

Now if you're going to use the XXX_I_TWR logic there it does work as an S1 can open a tower position and an S3 can open a Center and there can be tweaks to the FSS definition and policy to get it done. I think it's a wonderful idea and a great way to get people working on the network.

[Juan Amado]

Hi mates,

There are 2 theads about this topic but I'll repeat myself. I don't know if an S1 could open these positions if they need to know a little bit about meteo, rwy config and traffic alert and avoidance such as position reports.

I suggest to check the appendix A which says about what an S1 learns.

I'd totally agree with that if S1 knew about those points. I don't think an AFIS endorsment is necessary as said in the other thread. The idea here of being opened from S1s would benefit students testing, practising and listening to radio (without having responsability of the separation of aircraft).

Please, if this will be change that S1 could open them, revise Appendix A.

Thanks

Edited August 18, 2021 at 03:16 PM by Juan Amado