Radar Blocks under S1??

[Rob Nabieszko]

Can we remove or edit the criteria that S1 controllers must understand radar data blocks?

I would not normally introduce a controller to radar blocks until at least S2 training, as a ground controller will never see it.

 

Likewise for the airspace learning. This should be at S2 as well.

 

The S1 has waaaay too many knowledge requirements that arent really relevant to a ground only controller. This information is not only excessive, but then by the time they need it they will have forgotten it because it was taught before they started using it.

[Matthew Bartels]

basic understanding of radar block. Like how to read callsign, speed, aircraft type etc.

[Rob Nabieszko]

1 hour ago, Matthew Bartels said:

basic understanding of radar block. Like how to read callsign, speed, aircraft type etc.

When will a ground controller see these?

Perhaps a terminology change is necessary. "Reading and interpreting flight plans/flight strips."

[Matthew Bartels]

I see them all the time working ground on VRC

[Andre Almeida]

Here controllers will see this on the ground (for example. At times there might be more/less information):

Is that what is being meant with radar block? If yes, then it makes perfect sense to teach this to S1s, they do need to know what those things mean. If that is not what is meant with radar blocks then please disregard this message.

Edited July 22, 2021 at 08:43 PM by Andre Almeida

[1341101]

31 minutes ago, Matthew Bartels said:

I see them all the time working ground on VRC

Yeah, so I feel like this is quite an American thing. Radar clips are completely irrelevant for GND controllers in Europe, who mostly rely on the Surveillance Movement Radar (special modified ground radar with the airport diagram and actual aircraft icons and their call signs) as well as a list of aircraft to see clearances.

Matt, perhaps this point should be rephrased to something long the lines of “appropriate display configurations/settings” but ground controller mainly use SMRs (not radar radars) when we talk outside of the US.

 

[Matthew Bartels]

3 hours ago, Andre Almeida said:

Here controllers will see this on the ground (for example. At times there might be more/less information):

Is that what is being meant with radar block? If yes, then it makes perfect sense to teach this to S1s, they do need to know what those things mean. If that is not what is meant with radar blocks then please disregard this message.

This is exactly what we mean

[Emma Pollak]

3 hours ago, 1341101 said:

ground controller mainly use SMRs (not radar radars) when we talk outside of the US.

But it is still a radar, and they are still data blocks, so it is correct to say radar data blocks. Perhaps you could just call them data blocks, but that is less precise. Also, in the US we also use ground radar, called ASDE-X

[1341101]

7 hours ago, Matthew Bartels said:

This is exactly what we mean

 

6 hours ago, Ralph Pollak said:

But it is still a radar, and they are still data blocks, so it is correct to say radar data blocks. Perhaps you could just call them data blocks, but that is less precise. Also, in the US we also use ground radar, called ASDE-X

Okay, so how about "Shows an understanding of flight strips (if used) and radar data blocks, relevant to the delivery and ground controller"? This way people won't get confused as to which radar you're talking about.

[Mateusz Zymla]

Not to mention, that SMR is only installed on the biggest airports. Some of them are still based on PSR, so no label at all - just a blip. Recently updated SMRs may receive info from mode S/ADS-B. Rest of the world is working on good old Flight Progress Strips.

Edited July 23, 2021 at 09:03 AM by Mateusz Zymla

[Karl Mathias Moberg]

Sometimes you just have to adapt to the VATSIMism of things. No matter what, we're still using a radar, even if Euroscope is displaying something differently, it's still a radar client and worded like that. 

[Andreas Fuchs]

Just call it aircraft data tags.

[Rick Rump]

On 7/24/2021 at 5:29 AM, Andreas Fuchs said:

Just call it aircraft data tags.

I think this is a permissible solution.

[Magnus Meese]

How about "iii. Demonstrates ability to correctly set up, interpret, and use relevant controller software and tools"

or "ATC client" or whatever. No need to be overly specific.