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Radar Blocks under S1??


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Can we remove or edit the criteria that S1 controllers must understand radar data blocks?

I would not normally introduce a controller to radar blocks until at least S2 training, as a ground controller will never see it.

 

Likewise for the airspace learning. This should be at S2 as well.

 

The S1 has waaaay too many knowledge requirements that arent really relevant to a ground only controller. This information is not only excessive, but then by the time they need it they will have forgotten it because it was taught before they started using it.

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Rob Nabieszko | VATCAN3

Director of Training, VATCAN

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basic understanding of radar block. Like how to read callsign, speed, aircraft type etc.

Matt Bartels
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1 hour ago, Matthew Bartels said:

basic understanding of radar block. Like how to read callsign, speed, aircraft type etc.

When will a ground controller see these?

Perhaps a terminology change is necessary. "Reading and interpreting flight plans/flight strips."

Rob Nabieszko | VATCAN3

Director of Training, VATCAN

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I see them all the time working ground on VRC

Matt Bartels
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Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own and not representative of the official opinion of the VATSIM Board of Governors

 

 

 

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Here controllers will see this on the ground (for example. At times there might be more/less information):

image.png.01fd0f10665f95075b41d4c755a22131.png

Is that what is being meant with radar block? If yes, then it makes perfect sense to teach this to S1s, they do need to know what those things mean. If that is not what is meant with radar blocks then please disregard this message.

Edited by Andre Almeida
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31 minutes ago, Matthew Bartels said:

I see them all the time working ground on VRC

Yeah, so I feel like this is quite an American thing. Radar clips are completely irrelevant for GND controllers in Europe, who mostly rely on the Surveillance Movement Radar (special modified ground radar with the airport diagram and actual aircraft icons and their call signs) as well as a list of aircraft to see clearances.

Matt, perhaps this point should be rephrased to something long the lines of “appropriate display configurations/settings” but ground controller mainly use SMRs (not radar radars) when we talk outside of the US.

 

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Gander Oceanic Operations Director & Instructor | VATSIM Spain Events Director & Operational Assistant | Eurocontrol West Sectorbuddy

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3 hours ago, Andre Almeida said:

Here controllers will see this on the ground (for example. At times there might be more/less information):

image.png.01fd0f10665f95075b41d4c755a22131.png

Is that what is being meant with radar block? If yes, then it makes perfect sense to teach this to S1s, they do need to know what those things mean. If that is not what is meant with radar blocks then please disregard this message.

This is exactly what we mean

Matt Bartels
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Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own and not representative of the official opinion of the VATSIM Board of Governors

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, David Solesvik 1341101 said:

ground controller mainly use SMRs (not radar radars) when we talk outside of the US.

But it is still a radar, and they are still data blocks, so it is correct to say radar data blocks. Perhaps you could just call them data blocks, but that is less precise. Also, in the US we also use ground radar, called ASDE-X

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7 hours ago, Matthew Bartels said:

This is exactly what we mean

 

6 hours ago, Ralph Pollak said:

But it is still a radar, and they are still data blocks, so it is correct to say radar data blocks. Perhaps you could just call them data blocks, but that is less precise. Also, in the US we also use ground radar, called ASDE-X

Okay, so how about "Shows an understanding of flight strips (if used) and radar data blocks, relevant to the delivery and ground controller"? This way people won't get confused as to which radar you're talking about.

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C1-rated controller

Gander Oceanic Operations Director & Instructor | VATSIM Spain Events Director & Operational Assistant | Eurocontrol West Sectorbuddy

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Not to mention, that SMR is only installed on the biggest airports. Some of them are still based on PSR, so no label at all - just a blip. Recently updated SMRs may receive info from mode S/ADS-B. Rest of the world is working on good old Flight Progress Strips.

Edited by Mateusz Zymla

Mateusz Zymla - 1131338

VATSIMer since 2009, IRL pilot rated.

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On 7/24/2021 at 5:29 AM, Andreas Fuchs said:

Just call it aircraft data tags.

I think this is a permissible solution.

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VATUSA Mid-west Region Manager | Former VATUSA Training Director | Former ZDC ATM/DATM/TA/WM

VATSIM Network Supervisor | Team 5

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