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Phraseology Standard(s)


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Under Developmental (S1) it says, "Uses prescribed phraseology according to FAA or ICAO standards with allowable local variances."

ALL aviation jurisdictions have their own AIP-notified variances from the ICAO standard. I submit that FAA is just one of these, and does not merit specific mention in this global document since it is included automatically as an allowable local variance.

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Alistair Thomson

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I suggest a rewording

"Uses prescribed phraseology according to FAA or ICAO standards, or other appropriate jurisdictional phraseology variance with allowable local variances" or similar. 

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Gander Oceanic Operations Director & Instructor | VATSIM Spain Marketing Director & Operations Assistant | Eurocontrol West Sectorbuddy

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2 hours ago, Alistair Thomson said:

Under Developmental (S1) it says, "Uses prescribed phraseology according to FAA or ICAO standards with allowable local variances."

ALL aviation jurisdictions have their own AIP-notified variances from the ICAO standard. I submit that FAA is just one of these, and does not merit specific mention in this global document since it is included automatically as an allowable local variance.

 

2 hours ago, David Solesvik 1341101 said:

I suggest a rewording

"Uses prescribed phraseology according to FAA or ICAO standards, or other appropriate jurisdictional phraseology variance with allowable local variances" or similar. 

ICAO DOC 9432 already approves exception to be made for itself, it's not really needed to point out, because "local variance" can be interpreted as ICAO standard then (because approved by that). 

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Mateusz Zymla - 1131338

VATSIMer since 2009, IRL pilot rated.

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Would you all just be fine with:

"Utilizes prescribed phraseology"?

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VATUSA Mid-west Region Manager | Former VATUSA Training Director | Former ZDC ATM/DATM/TA/WM

VATSIM Network Supervisor | Team 5

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2 hours ago, Rick Rump said:

Would you all just be fine with:

"Utilizes prescribed phraseology"?

I don't know about everyone else, but to me, the term "utilizes prescribed phraseology", as a whole without much further context seems a little vague.

C1-rated controller

Gander Oceanic Operations Director & Instructor | VATSIM Spain Marketing Director & Operations Assistant | Eurocontrol West Sectorbuddy

[email protected]

1341101

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46 minutes ago, David Solesvik said:

as a whole without much further context seems a little vague.

The Region and Division can drill down on what the prescribed phraseology is. Some things in the Policy are not vague to be vague, but are broad to allow for localization. Yes I know, this is suppose to be a "GLOBAL" Policy, but we need to give the broad strokes and let the local policies dictate for local flavor where practical.

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VATUSA Mid-west Region Manager | Former VATUSA Training Director | Former ZDC ATM/DATM/TA/WM

VATSIM Network Supervisor | Team 5

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On 7/24/2021 at 12:58 AM, Mateusz Zymla said:

"Uses prescribed phraseology according to FAA or ICAO standards with allowable local variances."

I'm a bit hazy on the word prescribed.  How about:

"Communicates using internationally and/or locally documented standard phraseology."

Greg Barber

VATPAC3 - Director ATC Training & Standards

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7 hours ago, Greg Barber said:

I'm a bit hazy on the word prescribed.  How about:

"Communicates using internationally and/or locally documented standard phraseology."

So we're once again not pointing out ICAO, and then from a few local whiners I'll say that "I should not use IRL documents for vatsim, because certain things are vatsim specific", LOL. Yes, I've heard that already few times, from old grandpa's of vatsim, who lost their "as real as it gets" motto, because they are lazy enough to educate themselves, or rude enough not to admit they were doing something for last 20 years on vatsim in wrong manner. 🙂

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Mateusz Zymla - 1131338

VATSIMer since 2009, IRL pilot rated.

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16 minutes ago, Mateusz Zymla said:

So we're once again not pointing out ICAO, and then from a few local whiners I'll say that "I should not use IRL documents for vatsim, because certain things are vatsim specific", LOL. Yes, I've heard that already few times, from old grandpa's of vatsim, who lost their "as real as it gets" motto, because they are lazy enough to educate themselves, or rude enough not to admit they were doing something for last 20 years on vatsim in wrong manner. 🙂

I have no idea why you have said any of this considering it isn't relevant...

"using internationally and/or locally documented standard phraseology" completely rules out what you have described being allowed.

Liesel Downes
Gander Oceanic Deputy OCA Chief
ganderoceanic.ca
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1 hour ago, Mateusz Zymla said:

So we're once again not pointing out ICAO, and then from a few local whiners I'll say that "I should not use IRL documents for vatsim, because certain things are vatsim specific", LOL. Yes, I've heard that already few times, from old grandpa's of vatsim, who lost their "as real as it gets" motto, because they are lazy enough to educate themselves, or rude enough not to admit they were doing something for last 20 years on vatsim in wrong manner. 🙂

At least the "old grandpa's" are smart enough to not offend a huge portion of the VATSIM membership in a single post.

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17 hours ago, Mateusz Zymla said:

Yes, I've heard that already few times, from old grandpa's of vatsim, who lost their "as real as it gets"

It was "old grandpa's" that started this network, it is "old grandpa's" that fund this network, it wasn't " old grandpa's" that used the "as real as it gets" motto it was Microsoft. It's the "old grandpa's" that keep this network running and free for you, an invited guest, to use. So instead of offending them, maybe you should be thanfull that they have built this network and allow you to use it, and that you'll be able to use it when you become an "old grandpa" 

Edited by Kirk Christie
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Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3

VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent

Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member

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1 hour ago, Kirk Christie said:

It was "old grandpa's" that started this network, it is "old grandpa's" that fund this network, it wasn't " old grandpa's" that used the "as real as it gets" motto it was Microsoft. It's the "old grandpa's" that keep this network running and free for you, an invited guest, to use. So instead of offending them, maybe you should be thanfull that they have built this network and allow you to use it, and that you'll be able to use it when you become an "old grandpa" 

Shall we veer back on topic please?

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Jeremy Peterson (HP)
VATUSA Command Center National Operations Manager (NOM)/VATUSA9
[email protected] or [email protected]

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On 8/1/2021 at 6:04 PM, Mateusz Zymla said:

So we're once again not pointing out ICAO, and then from a few local whiners I'll say that "I should not use IRL documents for vatsim, because certain things are vatsim specific", LOL. Yes, I've heard that already few times, from old grandpa's of vatsim, who lost their "as real as it gets" motto, because they are lazy enough to educate themselves, or rude enough not to admit they were doing something for last 20 years on vatsim in wrong manner. 🙂

As disrespectful as your post is (and I remind you of A1) to to many members of the network that others have pointed out may be the very reason we are here, I'm fairly certain you're smart enough to understand that "internationally documented" means ICAO and "locally documented" means FAA or AIP or whatever else is used around ththe world.

I think "Uses internationally and/or locally documented standard phraseology" is the best way to encompass all of these without introducing weird VATSIMisms as they would not be covered by the documents.

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Greg Barber

VATPAC3 - Director ATC Training & Standards

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