New to VATSIM, looking for a bit of guidance

[Reg LeBlanc]

Hi all,

My name is Reg. I am new to VATSIM, so I am still feeling my way around and figuring out how this all works.
Honestly, this is super exciting. However, I think I have a bit of 'information overload' from browsing around, so I'm looking for a bit of guidance as to what to do next.

Where I am now :
---
I have been playing around, offline, with a Dornier 328 (Turboprop model) in FSX for the last ~12 months, and logged roughly 250 hours. I got fairly comfortable flying the aircraft at a basic level, but now decided to upgrade to X-Plane 11, which added a whole lot more complexity in the cockpit! A complexity that really wasn't there in FSX.

Since I don't have any real-life piloting background (only a general interest in planes), there is a lot of elements of flying that I'm sure I previously didn't pay too close attention to, and I know I will need to learn. So far, I am not quite at the level where I'd feel comfortable flying on VATSIM (yet).

I did the New Member Orientation Test, and so far that's as far as I got.
I did sign up to Navigraph, so my Navdata is up to date.

Where I'd like to eventually get to :
---
My eventual goal is to join you guys out there and putter around in the Dornier 328 on VATSIM!

My question(s) ... at least so far! :

1) From where I am now, what should be my next step re: training/learning? I can clarify anything if this is too vague of a question. I see there is a 'learning center' section, but not too sure how the process works to get certified beyond where I am now.

2) Am I better off getting used to one of the default X-Plane aircraft to further my learning/training?
As you can see, my aircraft of choice is not one of the default ones from either FSX or XP11.
Beyond the likelihood of flying in a Cessna 172 or Baron etc. to learn some of the basics, I don't really have an interest in the big commercial Boeing/Airbus jets.
I'd instead like to stick to a turboprop aircraft. If a default plane is better, I could always use a King Air C90 to fill that void...
Long-term, though, my personal preference is to learn the ins and outs of the 328.

This thread, and especially this particular post from Spender Vondel was super helpful and it is starting to put the puzzle pieces together in my head.
I'm going on "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know!", so I am sure there are things I will need to know that I don't even realize yet, but any help from my above questions would be appreciated.

Thanks, and excited to be here!

Edited August 5, 2021 at 05:18 PM by Reg LeBlanc

[Alistair Thomson]

3 hours ago, Reg LeBlanc said:

"The more you know, the more you realize you don't know!"

That is absolutely true. But it applies to EVERYONE here on VATSIM, not just new members!

Here is what you SHOULDN'T do: you shouldn't wait until you think you know everything before flying on VATSIM! You seem to be able to fly your chosen aircraft, so all you really need is a basic understanding of ATC communications and how approaches and departures work in general terms. Spender's post was useful and if you get most of that, you're good to go!

The rest is built from experience and more study (with no further certification required, unless you want that), so you'll answer your two questions yourself with some online flights behind you. And remember that ATC are just members like yourself, and can be incredibly helpful, so get up there!

[Dace Nicmane]

Hi Reg,

Do I understand correctly that you still need to learn to fly your plane? If so, youtube, xplane forums and whatever else you can find online specific to the Dornier will help you better. The VATSIM learning center deals more with ATC comms, procedures and things like that.

You don't need any certifications to fly, unless you want them. For that, see the ATOs, VATSIM approved pilot training organizations.

Be sure to stick to your Dornier if that's what you enjoy. The more variety in aircraft types, the merrier! (I don't think I've ever seen a Dornier on VATSIM!)

[Tobias Dammers]

On 8/5/2021 at 7:16 PM, Reg LeBlanc said:

1) From where I am now, what should be my next step re: training/learning? I can clarify anything if this is too vague of a question. I see there is a 'learning center' section, but not too sure how the process works to get certified beyond where I am now.

You don't need certifications, none of the pilot ratings beyond P0 are requirements for anything, they are purely decorative. Some people get pilot ratings for the realism aspect of it, effectively simulating flight school; others do it because it's a pretty decent way of acquiring the skills you need to fly your aircraft on VATSIM, especially if you're after realism. But you can also get the knowledge from elsewhere - there are plenty of guides, youtube videos, and even official documents, available online, you just need to look for them. This forum here, and the VATSIM discord, are also great places to learn.

Either way, you should learn the aircraft you intend to fly on VATSIM to a level where you're not constantly looking up documentation or wondering how you might perform what's being asked. At the very least, you need to be able to start up and shut down the aircraft, taxi, take off, land, and fly a given heading, altitude, and speed. If you're going to fly VFR, you should also be able to fly traffic patterns and visual approaches; if IFR, you need to be able to navigate by instruments, follow IFR routes, fly IFR procedures (STARs, transitions, SIDs, instrument approaches).

On 8/5/2021 at 7:16 PM, Reg LeBlanc said:

Am I better off getting used to one of the default X-Plane aircraft to further my learning/training?

I don't think so. I don't know how good the 328 you're using is, but with 250 hours on type, sticking with this aircraft is probably going to be easier for now than going back to a light GA aircraft. And IME, multi-engine turboprops are actually easier to fly than single-engine pistons in many regards - there's no carb heat, no mixture, you're not constantly flying on the edge of the performance envelope, and the instrumentation is often better too. What makes the 328 more challenging than, say, a Cessna 172, is that everything happens faster - the approach speed is almost twice as fast, so everything that needs to happen between turning final and rolling out happens twice as fast.

Whether the aircraft you fly is "default" is practically entirely irrelevant - people fly different sims on VATSIM, including P3D, XP11, XP10, FSX, MSFS2020, and FlightGear, and which aircraft types are good varies a lot between them. There really isn't much of an advantage to flying the "default" aircraft, and in some cases (especially MSFS2020), the default aircraft are even a bad choice.

One small downside of the 328 is that it's a very rare type on VATSIM, so if you have aircraft-specific questions, you may find it harder to get good answers from the community - but you shouldn't let that hold you back.

[Reg LeBlanc]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

That really cleared a lot of things up.

I'm still getting used to the aircraft in X-Plane (I only bought XP11 ten days ago, and the FMC/cockpit button layout are a lot different than the 328 I had from FSX), but it's getting there.

Once I can do a full flight from startup to shutdown, and read up on a few more technicalities and feel more comfortable, I'll probably hop on.

In terms of ATC communication, I think I'll be OK, at least at a basic level. I have a surface-level understanding of communication and terminology from listening to a lot of ATC online... including some hand written hints/tips/notes. Plus, where I'd be flying (Atlantic Canada) doesn't have an excessively-intimidating airport such as JFK or Heathrow. So, as long as someone is doing Moncton/Gander Center and is a little bit patient with me, I should be able to feel my way through my first flight and build from there. Not sure which airport yet, but maybe something like CYQM to CYYT.

Quote

One small downside of the 328 is that it's a very rare type on VATSIM, so if you have aircraft-specific questions, you may find it harder to get good answers from the community - but you shouldn't let that hold you back.

That's actually been the main source of my 'slow learning' of the new cockpit. I would watch a video tutorial, but a lot of the buttons/controls on other aircraft either aren't located in the same place, or are set up completely differently, so I'd pause and spend a lot of time doing "hey, wait, I don't have that button!" or "I wonder what button "XYZ" is for" ... then the youtube searching continues!

I did find a few videos of people flying the 328, so i've been taking notes.

Before too long, I should be proficient enough at flying the thing that I'll get out there!

 

 

Another (small) question ... the 328 came with a variety of paint options. Am I able to fly with any airline/scheme, or is there a system in place for that?

I've enjoyed the look of this Vision Airlines scheme and was thinking of using it 🙂

Edited August 10, 2021 at 06:44 PM by Reg LeBlanc

[Dace Nicmane]

You can fly any airline or tail number (something realistic is preferred) but others are unlikely to see the exact livery you're wearing. In fact, they may even see a different aircraft type, depending on what their model matching makes of it. Make sure you file the correct aircraft type and airline code (ICAO, not IATA), this will increase the chance that we see you the way you are.

P.S. I can see that my model matching in theory supports D328.

Edited August 10, 2021 at 09:34 PM by Dace Nicmane

[Tobias Dammers]

17 hours ago, Reg LeBlanc said:

That's actually been the main source of my 'slow learning' of the new cockpit. I would watch a video tutorial, but a lot of the buttons/controls on other aircraft either aren't located in the same place, or are set up completely differently, so I'd pause and spend a lot of time doing "hey, wait, I don't have that button!" or "I wonder what button "XYZ" is for" ... then the youtube searching continues!

I did find a few videos of people flying the 328, so i've been taking notes.

Indeed - each aircraft type has its own specific procedures, and while general concepts and principles transfer between them, the devil is in the details.

Ideally, you should scour the web for a FCOM (Flight Crew Operating Manual) or similar document; these things not only describe all the aircraft systems and what they do, but they also contain a wealth of information such as procedures, checklists (IRL, operators usually amend or modify the manufacturer-supplied checklists and procedures based on operational concerns and experiences, but for VATSIM purposes, manufacturer-supplied ones are perfectly fine), and also all sorts of tables and calculations, such as V-speeds, limits, takeoff configurations, takeoff and landing distances, etc. Smartcockpit is usually a good starting point; they don't seem to have anything on the prop version, but AFAIK the 328JET is fairly similar as far as flight deck and operations go, and they do have a lot of stuff on that one. I would also check if the model itself comes with any documentation - many do, and although it's not going to be as extensive as a real FCOM, it should give you a solid head start.

17 hours ago, Reg LeBlanc said:

Another (small) question ... the 328 came with a variety of paint options. Am I able to fly with any airline/scheme, or is there a system in place for that?

You can fly any livery / paint scheme you want, but keep in mind that the actual livery is not transmitted over the network. Instead, pilot and ATC clients on the other end look at the aircraft type and airline, and map that to whatever model and livery is available on their end. So for example if you fly a Lufthansa A320neo (type code A20N, airline code DLH), my pilot client will go find an A320neo model in Lufthansa livery. If you fly a KLM A320neo, it will try to find an A320neo in KLM livery, but because KLM doesn't fly the A320, it won't resolve, and my pilot client will make a best guess, and might serve me an A320 in a blank livery, or from some other airline that uses vaguely similar colors. And if you fly an aircraft type for which I don't have a model available, my pilot client will try to find a similar aircraft type, so for example, if I don't have a Dornier 328 available, I might see your 328 as a DHC8 (which is also a high-wing turboprop airliner of similar size). This entire process is known as "model mapping"; and because it happens on each client independently, different people may see you differently.

So, in short: you can fly literally anything you want, but the more exotic your choice, the more likely you are to show up as something else on the other end.

[Nathaniel Miller]

On 8/5/2021 at 10:16 AM, Reg LeBlanc said:

Hi all,

My name is Reg. I am new to VATSIM, so I am still feeling my way around and figuring out how this all works.
Honestly, this is super exciting. However, I think I have a bit of 'information overload' from browsing around, so I'm looking for a bit of guidance as to what to do next.

Where I am now :
---
I have been playing around, offline, with a Dornier 328 (Turboprop model) in FSX for the last ~12 months, and logged roughly 250 hours. I got fairly comfortable flying the aircraft at a basic level, but now decided to upgrade to X-Plane 11, which added a whole lot more complexity in the cockpit! A complexity that really wasn't there in FSX.

Since I don't have any real-life piloting background (only a general interest in planes), there is a lot of elements of flying that I'm sure I previously didn't pay too close attention to, and I know I will need to learn. So far, I am not quite at the level where I'd feel comfortable flying on VATSIM (yet).

I did the New Member Orientation Test, and so far that's as far as I got.
I did sign up to Navigraph, so my Navdata is up to date.

Where I'd like to eventually get to :
---
My eventual goal is to join you guys out there and putter around in the Dornier 328 on VATSIM!

My question(s) ... at least so far! :

1) From where I am now, what should be my next step re: training/learning? I can clarify anything if this is too vague of a question. I see there is a 'learning center' section, but not too sure how the process works to get certified beyond where I am now.

2) Am I better off getting used to one of the default X-Plane aircraft to further my learning/training?
As you can see, my aircraft of choice is not one of the default ones from either FSX or XP11.
Beyond the likelihood of flying in a Cessna 172 or Baron etc. to learn some of the basics, I don't really have an interest in the big commercial Boeing/Airbus jets.
I'd instead like to stick to a turboprop aircraft. If a default plane is better, I could always use a King Air C90 to fill that void...
Long-term, though, my personal preference is to learn the ins and outs of the 328.

This thread, and especially this particular post from Spender Vondel was super helpful and it is starting to put the puzzle pieces together in my head.
I'm going on "The more you know, the more you realize you don't know!", so I am sure there are things I will need to know that I don't even realize yet, but any help from my above questions would be appreciated.

Thanks, and excited to be here!

Welcome Aboard! nice to have you here. Keep in mind and a general rule of thumb, even though there are NICE and good controllers on here, you might run in to total douches, and ill-tempered ones also... just be polite... courteous, straight and to the point and don't take anything they say in their rude, snide and even nasty bad attitudes to heart... take it with a grain assault...

Keep in mind they are JUST people, as so many have said to other hobbyists who have the first day jitters also... Some will take this a little too much and to heart .  They ARE NOT REAL ATC... THIS IS NOT Life or death, and neither is it personal... some take it that way... depends on what part of the world you are flying...

Learn, have fun and listen to the atc jargon and you will quickly learn how to speak to the controllers.  This is a BLAST... and you'll see how real world flying can be... it is CLOSE to REAL ATC but Vatsim needs to revamp their thinking and base it on Real world FAA rules and by-laws as much as it is possible, and to other countries and how they do their ATC... (Like UK for Example) 

Advice to a controller though: If you are having a bad fricking day, and are in a bad mood... my advice to you is to LOGOUT... and do NOT bring it here.  It does no worldly good to make other people miserable with your issue...  We're here to have have fun... relax and learn... don't interfere with our pleasure because you can't have "A NIIIICE DAY..." 

Plain and simple...

Just my two cents.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 at 11:27 PM by Nathaniel Miller
grammer

[Lauri Uusitalo]

On 8/14/2021 at 2:22 AM, Nathaniel Miller said:

Learn, have fun and listen to the atc jargon and you will quickly learn how to speak to the controllers.  This is a BLAST... and you'll see how real world flying can be... it is CLOSE to REAL ATC but Vatsim needs to revamp their thinking and base it on Real world FAA rules and by-laws as much as it is possible, and to other countries and how they do their ATC... (Like UK for Example) 

So what is required to revamp?

[Alistair Thomson]

On 8/13/2021 at 7:22 PM, Nathaniel Miller said:

Vatsim needs to revamp their thinking and base it on Real world FAA rules and by-laws as much as it is possible, and to other countries

Nope. The global standard is ICAO, but folks wishing to fly in US can also learn the agreed differences in procedure followed by the FAA. So VATSIM should base their thinking on real world ICAO rules. Of course, every country has its own allowed differences from ICAO, and each publishes these differences in their local AIM, including FAA, so it wouldn't be right for VATSIM to base their thinkng on any one of these variations from the global standard.

[Tobias Dammers]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:35 PM, Alistair Thomson said:

Nope. The global standard is ICAO, but folks wishing to fly in US can also learn the agreed differences in procedure followed by the FAA. So VATSIM should base their thinking on real world ICAO rules. Of course, every country has its own allowed differences from ICAO, and each publishes these differences in their local AIM, including FAA, so it wouldn't be right for VATSIM to base their thinkng on any one of these variations from the global standard.

I think what Nathaniel meant is that VATSIM somehow doesn't follow real-world procedures and phraseology closely enough, not that we should use FAA rules everywhere.

Not that I agree btw. - IMO, VATSIM is as close to IRL as it can, given the social and technical constraints and choices.