An apology to air traffic controllers

[saksham Jain]

I've been flying on Vatsim for about 10 months and on Xplane for well over a year. But I've never bothered buying the new AIRAC cycles as I don't know if it's worth the navigraph subscription. So alot of times I get cleared for SIDs and STARs that are not in my FMC. So I have to ask the ATC to give me a different SID/STAR which makes me feel bad as I sorta ruin the harmony of the realism in the server.

 

I don't know how wide spread this issue is but I'd like to apologise to the air traffic controllers who have to deal with this.

 

And is this a widespread problem or am I the only stupid person here?

[Torben Andersen]

Hi - you are certainly not the only person, who hasn't updated to the latest AIRAC. And stupidity is not in question. Not everyone have the funding to have a Navigraph (or similar) subscription. It is more a question on how good you want to immerse yourself in the simulation. From a controller perspective it adds to the workload and in some area of the World, I would not fly without an updated AIRAC, as the complexity is giving you as pilot a lot extra work as well, as you're not able to predict as good the next procedure the atc will give you.

If you have money for a Navigraph subscription, I wouldn't hessitate to buy one - for me, it is as essential, if not more, as good scenery and we all spend a decent amount on scenery, I guess. But it would ruin my immersion to the simulation, if I was unable to follow real World Procedure to the extent of my skills (and i'm not a real World pilot).

[saksham Jain]

6 hours ago, Torben Andersen said:

Hi - you are certainly not the only person, who hasn't updated to the latest AIRAC. And stupidity is not in question. Not everyone have the funding to have a Navigraph (or similar) subscription. It is more a question on how good you want to immerse yourself in the simulation. From a controller perspective it adds to the workload and in some area of the World, I would not fly without an updated AIRAC, as the complexity is giving you as pilot a lot extra work as well, as you're not able to predict as good the next procedure the atc will give you.

If you have money for a Navigraph subscription, I wouldn't hessitate to buy one - for me, it is as essential, if not more, as good scenery and we all spend a decent amount on scenery, I guess. But it would ruin my immersion to the simulation, if I was unable to follow real World Procedure to the extent of my skills (and i'm not a real World pilot).

Yup I agree with you, I'll consider getting a navigraph subscription

[Tobias Dammers]

It's not stupid, and you're not required to have up-to-date FMC data, though it is of course highly recommended.

If you're low on cash, you may consider buying a monthly Navigraph subscription and cancelling it immediately; this gives you 1 month to download the current AIRAC cycle, and after that, you can coast on it for a couple months, because things don't change radically all that often, and being a couple cycles behind is usually no big deal.

If Navigraph is completely out of the question, there are still a few things you can do to make things pleasant for everyone involved:

• Get the charts for the airports you want to fly out of and into. FMC data isn't available for free, but charts for most countries are - skyvector has the US charts, most European countries publish their actual eAIP's for free, and there's also chartfox, which grabs these from the public sources and makes them searchable in a unified, convenient UI. (Which also means that if you do decide to buy a continuous Navigraph subscription, the "FMS Data Only" one will be fine - Navigraph charts look nicer than the free ones, but the information in them is the same).
• Given charts and outdated FMC data, you can check which procedures are still more or less the same - often, changes are small, like a changed altitude restriction, changed obstacles, or radio frequencies. Such changes can easily be dealt with.
• If you're not married to flying RNAV, you can just pick non-RNAV procedures, and navigate them the old fashioned way, with VOR, DME, and NDB. It's more work, but also a fun challenge.
• Depending on where you're flying, how busy it is, and how predictable, you may also get away with programming the newer procedures from the charts by hand. Of course this will blow up if ATC assigns a different one, so this isn't a foolproof thing.
• If you put "AIRAC 1234" in your remarks (where 1234 is the AIRAC number you have), some controllers may be able to accommodate - most don't have all historical procedures on file for you, but an experienced controller who knows their airport well may still know what those procedures looked like, and clear you for an outdated one.
• Failing all else, you can always request vectors. You may experience delays as a consequence (putting someone on a SID or STAR is hands-down less work for a controller than vectoring them), but you'll get there eventually.

[saksham Jain]

On 10/24/2021 at 11:45 PM, Tobias Dammers said:

It's not stupid, and you're not required to have up-to-date FMC data, though it is of course highly recommended.

If you're low on cash, you may consider buying a monthly Navigraph subscription and cancelling it immediately; this gives you 1 month to download the current AIRAC cycle, and after that, you can coast on it for a couple months, because things don't change radically all that often, and being a couple cycles behind is usually no big deal.

If Navigraph is completely out of the question, there are still a few things you can do to make things pleasant for everyone involved:

• Get the charts for the airports you want to fly out of and into. FMC data isn't available for free, but charts for most countries are - skyvector has the US charts, most European countries publish their actual eAIP's for free, and there's also chartfox, which grabs these from the public sources and makes them searchable in a unified, convenient UI. (Which also means that if you do decide to buy a continuous Navigraph subscription, the "FMS Data Only" one will be fine - Navigraph charts look nicer than the free ones, but the information in them is the same).
• Given charts and outdated FMC data, you can check which procedures are still more or less the same - often, changes are small, like a changed altitude restriction, changed obstacles, or radio frequencies. Such changes can easily be dealt with.
• If you're not married to flying RNAV, you can just pick non-RNAV procedures, and navigate them the old fashioned way, with VOR, DME, and NDB. It's more work, but also a fun challenge.
• Depending on where you're flying, how busy it is, and how predictable, you may also get away with programming the newer procedures from the charts by hand. Of course this will blow up if ATC assigns a different one, so this isn't a foolproof thing.
• If you put "AIRAC 1234" in your remarks (where 1234 is the AIRAC number you have), some controllers may be able to accommodate - most don't have all historical procedures on file for you, but an experienced controller who knows their airport well may still know what those procedures looked like, and clear you for an outdated one.
• Failing all else, you can always request vectors. You may experience delays as a consequence (putting someone on a SID or STAR is hands-down less work for a controller than vectoring them), but you'll get there eventually.

Thankyou very much sir, this was informative and I appreciate your time. I will consider getting a navigraph subscription as that seems like the most convenient route to take. 

[Liesel Downes]

A lot of divisions also tend to announce when there are major changes coming so you can monitor those forums for where you usually fly, and buy on that basis.

[saksham Jain]

On 10/26/2021 at 4:07 PM, Liesel Downes said:

A lot of divisions also tend to announce when there are major changes coming so you can monitor those forums for where you usually fly, and buy on that basis.

Alright, will keep that in mind too. Thanks

[Andrea Mazzoni]

On 10/28/2021 at 12:02 AM, saksham Jain said:

Alright, will keep that in mind too. Thanks

Hello Saksham,

When I started in 2013 to fly online, I realized only after 1 year, that some waypoints could be added, or deleted, or renamed. AIRAC data are modified from real ANSP agencies with the purpose to provide a better ATC service, improve the quality of traffic flow management, and a lot of other different reasons. If you're flying with a liner, certainly is more relevant have always updated, or at least every 3 month, your Flight Management System. But, if you will do VFR's operations with some small general aviation aircraft....well, in that case will be different. These aircraft doesn't need a constantly updated database for your flight planning. If you do VFR, you need just the local charts for VFR operations, know how these operation are performed and....lookin out the aircraft window. If you haven't already done this type of flight, I will strongly recommend you to do it. Try to learn the local procedures applied in your favourite area, but remember also that VFR operation could be very different if you will fly in different countries. When I do my first VFR in US, I was definetely surprised from their procedures, which are totally different than Italian and European procedures.

Make mistakes isn't an issues, if you will learn from them. Can happen, and in case when it happen something wrong, in that case the best solution that I could give you is to trust of your ATC and work togheter with him/her to solve the issue with any potential solution.

 

Have a nice flight and also nice ATC sessions!

[saksham Jain]

On 10/31/2021 at 9:39 PM, Andrea Mazzoni said:

Hello Saksham,

When I started in 2013 to fly online, I realized only after 1 year, that some waypoints could be added, or deleted, or renamed. AIRAC data are modified from real ANSP agencies with the purpose to provide a better ATC service, improve the quality of traffic flow management, and a lot of other different reasons. If you're flying with a liner, certainly is more relevant have always updated, or at least every 3 month, your Flight Management System. But, if you will do VFR's operations with some small general aviation aircraft....well, in that case will be different. These aircraft doesn't need a constantly updated database for your flight planning. If you do VFR, you need just the local charts for VFR operations, know how these operation are performed and....lookin out the aircraft window. If you haven't already done this type of flight, I will strongly recommend you to do it. Try to learn the local procedures applied in your favourite area, but remember also that VFR operation could be very different if you will fly in different countries. When I do my first VFR in US, I was definetely surprised from their procedures, which are totally different than Italian and European procedures.

Make mistakes isn't an issues, if you will learn from them. Can happen, and in case when it happen something wrong, in that case the best solution that I could give you is to trust of your ATC and work togheter with him/her to solve the issue with any potential solution.

 

Have a nice flight and also nice ATC sessions!

Wow, thankyou very much sir. Im more of a IFR person but I sure will try VFR someday 😀

[Michael Ryan 1286383]

The simplest solution is to do what real pilots do: write "No SIDs/STARs" in the remaks section of your flight plan.