Vatsim controllers forgetting is common?

[Ulrik Brun]

51 minutes ago, Liesel Downes said:

Some of us have genuine conditions such as ADHD (especially inattentive) type where we will absolutely forget things all the time, and that is made harder when we're on ENR positions. Just a reminder goes a long way 🙂

That's understandable, you shouldn't put stuff at pause just beacuse of a condition so i'm glad you are doing what you like and sorry to be a little rude towards ATC when they forget. I just never think of such when flying.

[Liesel Downes]

11 minutes ago, Ulrik Brun said:

That's understandable, you shouldn't put stuff at pause just beacuse of a condition so i'm glad you are doing what you like and sorry to be a little rude towards ATC when they forget. I just never think of such when flying.

Neither do I honestly - the focus then is on flying and just listening for instructions. It is easier as a controller though to recognise on the frequency when the controller is probably overloaded and know when to best remind them 🙂

on SCO_CTR a couple sessions ago I accidentially let someone go 40nm south of their flight plan by placing them on a vector and then ended up with tunnel vision thanks to the traffic building up further north. They were understanding at least! 

[Daniel Faria]

Its a matter of being loving and patient with others

[Tobias Dammers]

Back on the original topic: there's also such a thing as "automatic handoffs", and IIRC, many Scandinavian airports use those.

In a nutshell: the charts will tell you to contact the next station on your own (e.g., "contact ABCD approach on 123.45 after passing 1500 ft"), and you're supposed to do that without being told by ATC. Pilots get this wrong all the time, usually because they haven't read all the relevant charts. So maybe that was what happened there?

[Ulrik Brun]

2 hours ago, Tobias Dammers said:

Back on the original topic: there's also such a thing as "automatic handoffs", and IIRC, many Scandinavian airports use those.

In a nutshell: the charts will tell you to contact the next station on your own (e.g., "contact ABCD approach on 123.45 after passing 1500 ft"), and you're supposed to do that without being told by ATC. Pilots get this wrong all the time, usually because they haven't read all the relevant charts. So maybe that was what happened there?

Perhaps it has happend but this was not the case, looking at the charts it seems ATC tell me to go to next atc when im on the charts halfway thru his airspace. Controllers forget peolpe when they are in center or on approach and it's not like they forget to tell them next atc beacuse i have charts for that but they tell me to go into a vector (as an example on approach during high traffic) and tell me to expect further vectors for the ils 25 (agen example) and then they forget me and i end up crossing another airspace witch get's angry at me and i am unable to say anything on the other frequency beacuse there is no time to talk.

[Lauri Uusitalo]

3 hours ago, Ulrik Brun said:

Perhaps it has happend but this was not the case, looking at the charts it seems ATC tell me to go to next atc when im on the charts halfway thru his airspace. Controllers forget peolpe when they are in center or on approach and it's not like they forget to tell them next atc beacuse i have charts for that but they tell me to go into a vector (as an example on approach during high traffic) and tell me to expect further vectors for the ils 25 (agen example) and then they forget me and i end up crossing another airspace witch get's angry at me and i am unable to say anything on the other frequency beacuse there is no time to talk.

You speak like this is normal everyday happening "controllers forget people". I really do not believe this happening at any larger scale. 

You can be handed off to the next sector sometimes quite early, but these are agreements between different FIRs. And on radar ATC will mark if the plane is handed off. So it does not seem very likely for them to forget.

[Ulrik Brun]

2 hours ago, Lauri Uusitalo said:

You speak like this is normal everyday happening "controllers forget people". I really do not believe this happening at any larger scale. 

You can be handed off to the next sector sometimes quite early, but these are agreements between different FIRs. And on radar ATC will mark if the plane is handed off. So it does not seem very likely for them to forget.

I don't think you got my point and never did i say it happens normaly, but they do happen and i wanna know why. Either way i think i got so many diffrent responses so i think it's time to close the thread unless anyone else has a point that has not been stated several times before?

[Mathias Jacobs-Anseeuw]

ATC can always forget someone. When it's busy, we can be occupied with some other situation on the other end of our AOR, and completely miss you exiting the AOR. When it's calm, we might be less attentive to what's happening because we're talking or chatting on Discord, watching something online, ... It happens, and we have to own up to our mistakes, say sorry to the next sector and try to do better the next time.

 

Sometimes, it's not that the ATC forgot, though. We might be aware, but other situations have higher priority, requiring more urgent actions than a transfer. For example, as long as you're safe, even when you're way off course, about to exit or already outside my AOR, I will let you fly for a while if it means I can save two aircraft from slamming into eachother, or getting them on the ILS without wrecking an arrival sequence.

Other times, as @Alex Ying pointed out before, pilots don't listen properly and need to be called multiple times to get a response. I've unfortunately had numerous situations already where a pilot called to say they received a Contact Me from the next sector, and asked if that was correct and they should switch. I could then only reply that I'd been instructing them to do exactly that multiple times over the past 5 minutes, but never got a response, so it was me who informed the next sector I'd lost radio contact and they should send a Contact Me.

[Ulrik Brun]

1 hour ago, Mathias Jacobs-Anseeuw 116 said:

ATC can always forget someone. When it's busy, we can be occupied with some other situation on the other end of our AOR, and completely miss you exiting the AOR. When it's calm, we might be less attentive to what's happening because we're talking or chatting on Discord, watching something online, ... It happens, and we have to own up to our mistakes, say sorry to the next sector and try to do better the next time.

 

Sometimes, it's not that the ATC forgot, though. We might be aware, but other situations have higher priority, requiring more urgent actions than a transfer. For example, as long as you're safe, even when you're way off course, about to exit or already outside my AOR, I will let you fly for a while if it means I can save two aircraft from slamming into eachother, or getting them on the ILS without wrecking an arrival sequence.

Other times, as @Alex Ying pointed out before, pilots don't listen properly and need to be called multiple times to get a response. I've unfortunately had numerous situations already where a pilot called to say they received a Contact Me from the next sector, and asked if that was correct and they should switch. I could then only reply that I'd been instructing them to do exactly that multiple times over the past 5 minutes, but never got a response, so it was me who informed the next sector I'd lost radio contact and they should send a Contact Me.

But a controller should always listen for a feedback, i get it's not always easy to do at high amount of traffic. However most of the times it's the controller who speaks very fast, that nobody understands especlly if he speaks half spanish and half english it's hard to keep track of who is talking to who, this is not the atc's fault but i think everyone would have a better time if everyone took their time to speak normal and listen instead of atc speaking very fast and using a 1990 microphone and the pilot to be busy with netflix. I think we all can agree that both require some training. And due to the unrealistic growth of Vatsim i think a entry exam (a robot exam at signup page) would be a good idea so that all these 10 year old kids who dosn't even know what ATC is, can't occupy with justin biber on the frequency (Very rare case tho but you get the point)

[Dace Nicmane]

Now you're mixing all possible issues together. There is already an entry exam for new members, and there is also an age limit of 13, so 10 year old kids don't get to fly on VATSIM.

[Kirk Christie]

12 hours ago, Ulrik Brun said:

And due to the unrealistic growth of Vatsim i think a entry exam (a robot exam at signup page) would be a good idea so that all these 10 year old kids who dosn't even know what ATC is, can't occupy with justin biber on the frequency (Very rare case tho but you get the point)

There already is an exam, the minimum age is 13, and its not always the teenagers that are the issues on the network. Plenty of posts in the fourm from some suposed adults complaning about ATC intrupting their flight. Do not make generalisations like this, with no bais or proof, you are just insulting people. Every one has the right to join this network and learn.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:01 PM, Ulrik Brun said:

never did i say it happens normaly,

umm yeah you did