Flights operated by Russian companies

[Egor Golovanev]

Good day! Several hours ago European Union banned all Russian flights in EU countries. So my question-how should I organize my flight plans, if I want to fly, for e.g. in Estonia, or Kaliningrad from Russia by Aeroflot, Rossia or S7? Should I use real NOTAMs and avoid all restricted FIRs, or I can fly normally? (P.S. Sorry if that type of questions answered in FAQ or VATSIM Rules😞) 

[Lauri Uusitalo]

I am not sure if there is a long enough stick... 😬

[Andreas Fuchs]

VATSIM is not political and you can perform your flights "as you wish". Of course, stay respectful and reasonable with your choice of flight route.

[Liesel Downes]

It would go completely against the spirit of this network and harm the innocent Russians caught up in the activites of their government to prevent them from enjoying this hobby as they always have. The only real rule is that you shouldn't be doing flights intended to simulate real disaster/military activites.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

No "rescue / refugee" flights, no military aid flights, etcetera -- nothing tied into the conflict in any way.  But any normal operation under a normal callsign is fine.

[Tom Dowd]

Any civilian airliner flight is fine. VATSIM doesnt simulate airspace closures/flight bans etc.

[Benjamin Koula]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:04 PM, Robert Shearman Jr said:

No "rescue / refugee" flights, no military aid flights, etcetera -- nothing tied into the conflict in any way.  But any normal operation under a normal callsign is fine.

There is nothing in the VSOA and CoC that prohibits humanitarian missions in support of a particular belligerent in a real world conflict. Rescue would technically qualify as search and rescue and/or military operations, however refugee flights that don't require special handling(except for in-flight emergencies as defined in the CoC) are ok. Supply runs and the such are allowed if only on point to point flights and not engaged in Special Operations. As VATSIM strictly prohibits real world politics pilots and controllers are not allowed to give special treatment (eg. special handling/priority) to either side or express their views by operating as a refugee/supply aircraft of a particular political view/party.

[Benjamin Koula]

To add to what I said earlier, humanitarian flights are allowed, but nobody may simulate the loss of life (such as recreating 9/11, Tenerife Disaster, or the Malaysian Airlines 17 Shootdown). This does not prevent pilots from simulating as transport or humanitarian aircraft, but rather prohibits pilots from simulating real combat. A humanitarian thus may depart from a warzone and proceed out of the country to evacuate citizens, but may not simulate getting shot down or purposely crashing the plane. The airplane may declare an emergency whereby it is a believable scenario (disabled controls from  gunshots or equipment/engine failure) and the active controller allows it. Planes may not do anything that simulates anything that is covered in the VSOA Handbook.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Koula said:

There is nothing in the VSOA and CoC that prohibits humanitarian missions in support of a particular belligerent in a real world conflict.

A17 - The re-creation of, or organization of events recognizing real world disasters, tragedies, or other such events, particularly those which resulted in loss of life, are not permitted.

Seems pretty clear to me, but, you do you.

[Benjamin Koula]

On 5/9/2022 at 6:23 PM, Robert Shearman Jr said:

A17 - The re-creation of, or organization of events recognizing real world disasters, tragedies, or other such events, particularly those which resulted in loss of life, are not permitted.

Seems pretty clear to me, but, you do you.

Supporting a country in mutual and/or humanitarian aid is acceptable VSOA PPM 3.4.2.6

[Robert Shearman Jr]

For NATURAL DISASTERS -- not for war.  Read it before you quote it.

[Liesel Downes]

Regardless of the legalese here I think it is generally accepted that we shouldn't touch this conflict in any form within the VATSIM environment. We weren't doing events centred around delivering ventilators for COVID patients either (at least I think people didn't?). It's not worth the potential political and social flare up in the respective region and it doesn't contribute much to our hobby that is for many an escape from a world filled with discrimination, hardship, and violence.

[Tobias Dammers]

23 hours ago, Liesel Downes said:

We weren't doing events centred around delivering ventilators for COVID patients either (at least I think people didn't?).

Indeed, and IIRC, the once-popular "Pandemic" event (based on the namesake boardgame) has come to an end for the same reason.

[rian joseph]

On 5/18/2022 at 3:41 PM, Robert Shearman Jr said:

For NATURAL DISASTERS -- not for war.  Read it before you quote it.

Good for you, I'm going to continue to to fly my c17 to Ukraine to pick up refugees 

[Andrew Crowley]

I mean... isn't the point to just fly somewhere, with other pilots and hopefully controllers? Why does there need to be a reason, and why would that matter? 

[Benjamin Koula]

It’s just for role play for some people, it doesn’t need to matter to you, but they can do what they wish if it adheres to the CoC.

[Andrew Crowley]

Well what I mean it, how or why would it matter to any other user? I get that folks will have their own reasons for flying in the sim of course, we all do.  But to anyone else on the network, it's just a plane flying somewhere. Why all this angst if the make believe aircraft is carrying make believe refugees or relief supplies or arms or paying pax or pallets of widgets... it's not ACTUALLY doing any of that, and there's no way for any other user on the network to know what it might be make-believe doing.  It's just a plane flying from A to B, right? 

[Alistair Thomson]

I think it must be a very cultural thing. What some societies might consider to be excellent conduct may be viewed as being in very bad taste by another.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Flying a mission which glorifies any political conflict in which lives have been lost is horribly disrespectful to those who have lost loved ones in said conflict.  Why anyone would continue to insist their inability to choose ANYWHERE ELSE in the world to fly -- or to choose to fly their chosen mission offline -- is more important than respecting those who have lost friends or family members is COMPLETELY beyond me.

That is my personal opinion and you don't have to agree.  But the fact that that VATSIM rules are pretty clearly in accordance with that opinion means your continued insensitivity may at some point be met with consequences.  So do so at your own risk.

[Andreas Fuchs]

13 hours ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Flying a mission which glorifies any political conflict in which lives have been lost is horribly disrespectful to those who have lost loved ones in said conflict.

Hi Rob, playing devil's advocate, I wonder why a simulated "humanitarian mission" in such a region would be horribly disrespectful? I understand that missions simulating an armed conflict are not allowed, but if you simulate a civilian rescue/evacuation mission, this would be a rather positive thing. I guess some will still take offence of it, because they don't want anyone take out enjoyment by simulating flights in the context of a realworld conflict. From my experience, those who feel offended will not be the people who are actually affected by the conflict, but "woke people" from anywhere else in the world, who THINK that these people could feel bad about it. This is what I do not like.

Disclaimer: I have no interest in simulating any type of these flights myself, they simply do not interest me, so I am rather neutral on this subject. I'd say "who cares", as long as not attacks are simulated.

Edited June 6, 2022 at 02:20 PM by Andreas Fuchs

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I generally try not to play the role of "offended police" in my daily life, either.  And if I saw anyone doing a refugee flight from Ukraine on VATSIM, having no personal stake in the matter, I wouldn't contact a SUP to deal with it.  I'd let someone who actually DID lose someone in the conflict take that issue on.

But again, the question of WHY someone feels they MUST inject ANY aspect of this horrible real-world conflict into VATSIM is, just, unanswerable.  Why is it so hard for people hell-bent to do so to do it offline, or, get on VATSIM and fly a "humanitarian" mission ANYWHERE else.  Otherwise it comes off to me as someone who wants to push the line of what will upset others just for the sake of pushing it.  I guess those kinds of people will always be around.

[Alistair Thomson]

42 minutes ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

I guess those kinds of people will always be around

Sad but true. There is a temptation among some folks to castigate other folks for doing something which these first folks think might be upsetting to a third bunch of folks... if that makes sense... and maybe questioning why that first bunch of folks feels so much emphathy for that third bunch to the extent that they want to control the actions of the second bunch, would be futile.

Sheesh! I'm starting to sound like Lewis Carroll!!