I wish everyone would use unicom

[John McMurdo]

Regardless of how quiet an airport is,  I wish people would still use unicom to announce their intentions.  If it was just one user,  then I would have just thought maybe they were new and did not know about unicom,  but this was not a one off,  this was 5 different users at the same airport 2 days in a row.  On one occasion,  I saw an aircraft line up on the runway ahead of me when I was 9NM away on approach,  and had already announced on final at 21NM and established at 12NM, even after slowing right down I ended up having to go around.  When I finally made it on the ground I asked for a radio check and got back a "loud and clear" and text was working too.  Okay maybe one persons radio was not working and they had not realized it,  it has happened to me,  but what about the other 4 users.  I normally try and fly in and out of airports that are covered by ATC,  during an event for example,  but I had been wanting to fly into a few airports which are usually very quiet and are rarely controlled for quite some time.

Edited April 25, 2022 at 11:27 AM by John McMurdo

[Andreas Fuchs]

Just make your announcements. If other users do to not take notice or react, fly through them. If you communicate, you have the right of way.

[John McMurdo]

40 minutes ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

Just make your announcements. If other users do to not take notice or react, fly through them. If you communicate, you have the right of way.

Thanks,  I will bear that in mind next time it happens, and I am pretty sure it will sooner or later,  however I am not sure how I will feel about actually flying through someone though.  I did think of getting on the radio and asking "ABC123,  what are you doing?!!!"  but they may not even have been on frequency.

[Chris Gardiner]

you can see if a pilot is on the frequency at https://afv-map.vatsim.net 

[Tobias Dammers]

Pilot client may also show this information.

However, you shouldn't even have to check this, because as per CoC:

Quote

B5 - Pilots flying through uncontrolled airspace shall monitor VHF radio frequency 122.800 or other designated "UNICOM" frequency until they come under air traffic control coverage. Where another pilot may benefit, a pilot shall transmit their intentions on the designated unicom frequency.

Which implies that:

• You may assume that anyone who is moving anywhere outside of controlled airspace is listening on 122.8; failing to do so is a CoC violation.
• If you're going to line up on a runway when someone else has just declared being on final, then announcing your intention will definitely benefit another pilot, so doing this is mandatory, and failing to do so is a CoC violation.

I know that this is a widespread phenomenon, and it may feel silly to do so on every occasion, but if it causes you trouble, then this kind of thing definitely deserves a .wallop IMO.

[Andreas Fuchs]

56 minutes ago, John McMurdo said:

Thanks,  I will bear that in mind next time it happens, and I am pretty sure it will sooner or later,  however I am not sure how I will feel about actually flying through someone though.  I did think of getting on the radio and asking "ABC123,  what are you doing?!!!"  but they may not even have been on frequency.

Fly through them, if the situation warrants it. But please don't shout at them. The may be new in the game and clueless about the usage of UNICOM. If you have time and motivation, contact them via private text chat and ask them whether they were aware of UNICOM procedures and offer them help on this topic, if needed. If you are short on time, feel free to refer them to this VATSIM forum or to "myVATSIM" for information about it. Our first reflex should normally be: "oh, this must be a new guy, unaware of UNICOM, let's steer him into the right direction". If they act up or say/do something stupid, you can still involve a Supervisor to get things set straight.

PS: users of swift pilot client can see the primary frequencies that other pilots around them have set in their cockpits. I am not sure about what information other pilot clients show.

Edited April 25, 2022 at 02:28 PM by Andreas Fuchs

[John McMurdo]

33 minutes ago, Andreas Fuchs said:

Fly through them, if the situation warrants it. But please don't shout at them. The may be new in the game and clueless about the usage of UNICOM. If you have time and motivation, contact them via private text chat and ask them whether they were aware of UNICOM procedures and offer them help on this topic, if needed. If you are short on time, feel free to refer them to this VATSIM forum or to "myVATSIM" for information about it. Our first reflex should normally be: "oh, this must be a new guy, unaware of UNICOM, let's steer him into the right direction". If they act up or say/do something stupid, you can still involve a Supervisor to get things set straight.

PS: users of swift pilot client can see the primary frequencies that other pilots around them have set in their cockpits. I am not sure about what information other pilot clients show.

To be honest I am not one to raise my voice at anyone.  I always try and avoid any kind of direct confrontation, but next time I will consider sending the person a friendly PM as you suggested.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I would also suggest that you simply temper your expectations for realism when flying on the network in situations where controllers would ordinarily be present but are not.  And while sending someone unsolicited advice for improvement might seem tempting, in my observation it often isn't well received.  The best you can do in my opinion is model the correct behavior and hope the others on frequency learn from it for next time. 

[Kirk Christie]

Supervisors, utilise them, I have in the past. Supervisors aren't just there to kick people off who are sleeping, they are there to help people as well, you will probably have a bigger impact that Forums/facebook posts, where your target audience is less likely to be.

[Nick Warren]

On 4/25/2022 at 7:08 AM, Tobias Dammers said:

Pilot client may also show this information.

However, you shouldn't even have to check this, because as per CoC:

Which implies that:

• You may assume that anyone who is moving anywhere outside of controlled airspace is listening on 122.8; failing to do so is a CoC violation.
• If you're going to line up on a runway when someone else has just declared being on final, then announcing your intention will definitely benefit another pilot, so doing this is mandatory, and failing to do so is a CoC violation.

I know that this is a widespread phenomenon, and it may feel silly to do so on every occasion, but if it causes you trouble, then this kind of thing definitely deserves a .wallop IMO.

There’s always someone here to quote the CoC.  Despite it’s best intentions, I think we can invoking the CoC on this matter until we either 1.) Create an accurate CTAF system utilizing real world charted frequencies or 2.) Get pilots to start utilizing Unicom correctly or 3.) Limit the text range of Unicom to the same effective range as voice.  I’ll let the imagination run wild as to what happens first, but I will venture to say none of them any time soon.  So until then, I will ride the fringes of the “CoC” and utilize it on an as needed basis when its utilization may benefit others.  Any other time, don’t expect me to be on it.  Many others feel similarly as well.

[Andreas Fuchs]

3 hours ago, Nick Warren said:

Any other time, don’t expect me to be on it.  Many others feel similarly as well.

Hi Nick, what's your issue with monitoring 122.80? I do it on all my online flights, even (on my second set) when in contact with ATC. I have not come across a lot of useless or annoying communication on UNICOM, if at all in recent times.

If you come across of a lot of unnecessary chat on UNICOM while in cruise, yeah, switch away. But at least during ground ops, departure, initial climbout, initial approach, final approach and arrival ground ops everyone will have to monitor and use UNICOM, when not in contact with active ATC. I don't care much about the CoC in this respect, but I care about common sense and courtesy towards all other users on the network.

[Daniel Mckee]

With the advent of MSFS2020 we have to understand that there are a lot of new people now flying who might not be aware of monitoring and reporting requirements etc. If you just ask "ABC what are you doing", that pilot might be new and not know what you are referring to. So instead of just mentioning it on the forum all we need do is send a polite personal message on vpilot or xpilot advising them of the requirements and also advising the frequency i.e. 122.80 to be monitored and in many cases also the CTAF that is in use for announcements where applicable. Operative word here is "politely".

 

Edited April 27, 2022 at 12:06 PM by Daniel Mckee

[Magnus Aabye]

I think the PRC could benefit from having a section dedicated to UNICOM to teach people about it before they ultimately connect to the network, had a flight a few days ago where 1 pilot never announced his intentions despite being in moderately busy airspace. It wasn't the end of the world, but enough to kinda kill the immersion & mildly annoy me. I later found out when I disconnected that it was his first VATSIM flight, so had I known that I would've given him some pointers to help him out.

 

[Brendan McCoy]

16 hours ago, Nick Warren said:

There’s always someone here to quote the CoC.  Despite it’s best intentions, I think we can invoking the CoC on this matter until we either 1.) Create an accurate CTAF system utilizing real world charted frequencies or 2.) Get pilots to start utilizing Unicom correctly or 3.) Limit the text range of Unicom to the same effective range as voice.  I’ll let the imagination run wild as to what happens first, but I will venture to say none of them any time soon.  So until then, I will ride the fringes of the “CoC” and utilize it on an as needed basis when its utilization may benefit others.  Any other time, don’t expect me to be on it.  Many others feel similarly as well.

What does the word 'shall' mean to you? Because in a regulatory document like the FAR for instance it means that compliance is mandatory. The CoC is the regulations for operating on VATSIM and thus compliance with a 'shall' statement is mandatory if you want to be on VATSIM. 

Edited April 27, 2022 at 09:34 PM by Brendan McCoy

[Kirk Christie]

Cant even get people to use 1 unicom frequency, how are do you think people will manage multiple CTAFS?

I ask again, when people are chatting and being a nuisance on unicom, did you report it to a supervisor. No point comming to the forums to complain, if you can't deal with the situation as it happens. Gatentee your target audience are not on the forums.

[Nick Warren]

Oh my god, you guys are rich.  The same ones telling me not to make a comment on a forum (which at least used to historically be the place for these types of discussions), are chiming in their own opinions on it.  Let me clarify.  I have zero issues being on unicom (a wrongly used term in itself here) in the terminal environment (within 20nm or so of the field).  I have zero issues communicating as well in that area.  What I don't need to see, and always see is people either chatting about this and that and/or announcing their intentions from the flight levels 100nm plus out and every 5 minutes thereafter, therefore "shall" monitor doesn't do a damn bit of good outside the terminal environment.  No, I'm not going to be a part of the problem and start an awareness campaign on frequency.  No I'm not going to be petty and involve a supervisor.  I am going to be a part of a discussion though at a place where a discussion is meant to be had.  If this venue of discussion is antiquated, then can it, but the last time I checked the header, it says "Pilot Talk".  So I revert back to my original statement.  Either foster an education campaign that teaches people how to utilize the frequency properly, limit the text range, so not everyone within 300nm has to see the misuse of the frequency (and people use text for the sole purpose of gaining more range), or utilize the correct CTAF method for the respective airfield, so that the only individuals impacted are the ones who are sharing that field and it's surrounding airspace.  Or we can just keep dumbing down the standard....because...VATSIM.

[Kirk Christie]

7 hours ago, Nick Warren said:

No I'm not going to be petty and involve a supervisor

There is nothing petty about involving supervisors to deal with this issues as they happen, that's what they are there for, what is petty is complaining about issues on the network and not doing anything to get it resolved as it happens.

[Nick Warren]

Okay Kirk.  Just maintain the status quo then.  Got it.  I look forward to chopping up the next topic down the road with you.

Edited April 29, 2022 at 03:15 AM by Nick Warren
Felt like it

[Mike Teague]

how about a server message when you connect to the network reminding everyone of the coc?

 

 

 

 

[Tobias Dammers]

1 hour ago, Mike Teague said:

how about a server message when you connect to the network reminding everyone of the coc?

 

 

 

 

Quick, and without cheating: what does the current join message say?

[Alistair Thomson]

17 hours ago, Nick Warren said:

utilize the correct CTAF method for the respective airfield

What about the global view? IIRC, CTAF isn't mentioned in the CoC...

[Brendan McCoy]

On 4/28/2022 at 1:53 PM, Nick Warren said:

Oh my god, you guys are rich.  The same ones telling me not to make a comment on a forum (which at least used to historically be the place for these types of discussions), are chiming in their own opinions on it.  Let me clarify.  I have zero issues being on unicom (a wrongly used term in itself here) in the terminal environment (within 20nm or so of the field).  I have zero issues communicating as well in that area.  What I don't need to see, and always see is people either chatting about this and that and/or announcing their intentions from the flight levels 100nm plus out and every 5 minutes thereafter, therefore "shall" monitor doesn't do a damn bit of good outside the terminal environment.  No, I'm not going to be a part of the problem and start an awareness campaign on frequency.  No I'm not going to be petty and involve a supervisor.  I am going to be a part of a discussion though at a place where a discussion is meant to be had.  If this venue of discussion is antiquated, then can it, but the last time I checked the header, it says "Pilot Talk".  So I revert back to my original statement.  Either foster an education campaign that teaches people how to utilize the frequency properly, limit the text range, so not everyone within 300nm has to see the misuse of the frequency (and people use text for the sole purpose of gaining more range), or utilize the correct CTAF method for the respective airfield, so that the only individuals impacted are the ones who are sharing that field and it's surrounding airspace.  Or we can just keep dumbing down the standard....because...VATSIM.

I think having real world CTAF frequencies would be pretty awesome but for now a rule is a rule and we can't just disregard it because you think its irrelevant. Pilots are professionals and professionals follow the regulations of their operating environment. 

 

 

[Nick Warren]

27 minutes ago, Brendan McCoy said:

I think having real world CTAF frequencies would be pretty awesome but for now a rule is a rule and we can't just disregard it because you think its irrelevant. Pilots are professionals and professionals follow the regulations of their operating environment. 

 

 

At risk of keeping this going;  what am I violating?  That I “shall” monitor unicom at all times when not in controlled airspace?  I stated I utilize it in the terminal area.  I monitor and actively communicate on it.  What possible good does monitoring it outside of the terminal area do?  What am I trying to coordinate at the flight levels?  A controller knows how to get a hold of me, although I’m regularly looking for them as well.  I know where other aircraft are in proximity to me, so what good does listening, or better yet, watching the text madness do?  If I’m flying VFR IRL, in class E (controlled) airspace, and I’m not receiving radar services, am I bound to monitor any particular frequency?  No I’m not.  Anyway, I’ll wrap it up there.  I’ll do things my way, others can do it theirs, and I promise we’ll all coexist just fine when it matters.

[Edvinas Maciulaitis]

Hello. I noticed this today too. Pilots not use UNICOM. I can say I'm new on VATSIM, came back after long time, and would like to check how it's work.  I found one airport with 5 online users, and turned on radio with 122.80.  As I know UNICOM is just for text.  I was waiting some time but it not came any text messages on vPilot client. One pilot landed at this airport when I was waiting, but also no messages.

Is it I do something wrong maybe?

Regards

[Trevor Hannant]

Were you just looking for text messages or were you listening in also?   Unicom is also now a voice channel so if you weren't listening, they may have been broadcasting on voice and you didn't hear