can you fly as an observer

[Eric van Dorp]

Sorry, I earlier placed it in the wrong place:

 

Maybe a stupid question, but if I log in as an observer and watch closely at other traffic, can you fly your own plane or is that disturbing the rest?

[Robert Shearman Jr]

It won't disturb anyone, no.  You won't show up in anyone else's sim or scope.  Controllers can see a list of nearby observers but not their position and movement.

If you search these forums you will find that there has been some past disagreement over whether flying as an observer constitutes "connected but not actively participating in the network," which is forbidden.  Others say that flying while observing falls under the same rules as observing while parked.  I guess that matter is up for some individual interpretation.  However, the goal of any OBS session should be that you eventually become more comfortable participating actively, so, be working toward that objective either way.

[Don Desfosse]

If a member's intent is to actively improve their skills, enabling them to be a more productive participant on the network and in the community, then they are actively participating in the network.  That's true for members that log on as an observer, on a ramp, listening to ATC, so they can get used to the network, listen to pilot and ATC transmissions to improve their ATC listening and communication skills, etc.  It can also be true for members who log on as an observer and fly, perhaps shadowing someone else with a goal of getting more familiar with departure and/or arrival procedures, how to correctly fly their aircraft, etc.   These are just a few examples of how members can actively improve their skills with the ultimate goal of connecting live to the server and fully participating in the community simulation experience. 

Our incredibly generous benefactors, that contribute their hard-earned funds for the enjoyment of all who use this network without charge, are happy to help support those who wish to responsibly learn to improve their skills.  What we are not willing to support, financially or ideologically, however, is people who connect and aren't actively benefitting themselves and the network (e.g. parked at a ramp, in cruise flight, etc. paying absolutely no attention to their simulation session).  Some argue that the incremental cost of those connections is small, which in principle is true, but pennies add up.  Our benefactors are willing to contribute to true value to the network, not non-value-added activity.  And we must respect that, lest our generous benefactors decide that the cost/value equation is not worth it, and stop contributing.

[Eric van Dorp]

I didn't forsee that my question would give a dispute like this.😀

So I want to explain. I don't want to use Vatsim  as a nice backup chatter.

The problem as a starter is that if you stand on a ramp listening to the voices, you have no idea wich message belongs to whom. And why they tell them that.

The second problem is that ATC is most of the time friendly and helpfull, but talks very quickly. (well may be they don't, but if feels like that)

As Don said: In a streaming on Youtube I saw someone taxiing and flying behind a pilot who was talking to ATC. When he did  you could listen what was said and look if you understand and simulate  it the same way. (calling taxiways are a big challenge ) 

If I could do that a few times there is some situational awareness.

And then over to the real thing.

Eric

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 at 01:00 PM by Eric van Dorp

[Robert Shearman Jr]

It's a simple question with an unfortunately complicated answer.  Don is one member of the Board of Governors.  Another who posts on these forums has said in at least one post that flying while observing is a no-no.  I think most people would say that as long as your goal is to learn and work toward active participation, observing is fine.

I would also suggest that you use VAT-Spy or map.vatsim.net to identify somewhere that there is a controller but not a ton of traffic, and do your first handful of flights in places which fit that profile.  Controllers are generally happier to slow down, repeat, and explain things if they are not under a massive workload crunch.

Overall, though, your best bet to get comfortable is to jump in and do it.  Don't fool yourself into thinking you must sound confident and perfect your first time up.  You almost certainly WILL NOT.  Embrace that you'll sound silly the first handful of times and just go for it anyway.

Best wishes and good luck.

[Eric van Dorp]

thanks Rob.