CRJ 900 getting sent around more frequently?

[Claudiu Dragomir]

I've flown a little over 200 hours on the A320 Neo, on the network, and never got a single 'go around' or 'cancel approach clearance'.

Last week I've switch to the CRJ 900, and 12 flights in, I've already been sent around 3 times.

Not complaining, that's actually fun, but I can't help wonder: am I doing something wrong?

 

My first thought was that I'm probably slower than the other jets, but the differences don't seem significant.

This is how I fly the standard ILS approach:

                                       A20N                                                 CRJ

intercept heading        green dot ~210 kts                          vT  ~200 kts

3nm to FDP                  CONF1, S speed ~180 kts              flaps 20 ~170 kts

GS intercept                 CONF 2 F speed ~160 kts              flaps 30, ~160 kts

5nm final                      CONF 3-4 Vref ~140 kts                  flaps 45, ~140 kts

 

Please help, what am I doing wrong?

Edited August 11, 2022 at 08:14 AM by Claudiu Dragomir

[Torben Andersen]

I think you need to consider the environment in which you flew more than looking at the differencies between an Airbus 320 and a CRJ - as you imply the diffenrecies in speed are small. There might be several reasons for going around - some you control, others are due to other pilots and their behavior, and some might be controller issues. Without more information it is hard to analyse this further,

[Thimo Koolen]

Ssshhhh, don't leak to them that we do that on purpose 😉 /s

 

Joking aside, there might be a few reasons, but probably it's just pure (un)luck; it might not even be correlated with the aircraft type and the situation might just have happened. Examples can be other pilots slowing down unexpectedly (which unfortunately isn't unexpected sometimes anymore... Who reduces to FAS on downwind in an A320...), controller making a mistake.

 

Or maybe the controllers expected you to be slower (CRJ's are far less common than e.g. an A320), which you weren't, thus coming in too close to traffic in front).

[Claudiu Dragomir]

Thank you. Indeed any of those causes are plausible and it must have been situational.

 

It's a fun little game to listen on the frequency and try to stay with the flow of traffic. I definitely suck at it, my situational awareness is abysmal.

I used to alt-tab into LittleNavMap and look at the traffic, but that feels like cheating...

[Claudiu Dragomir]

It happened again. This time the controller told me what was wrong and I could see it on my radar. Big thanks to the EDDF arrival controller for explaining.

The short story if somebody wants to learn from it.

 

I received an intercept heading from about 30 miles out. I thought: "lucky me, I'm going straight in".  This was followed closely by "speed 220 knots". Unusual, this far out, but okay. Spoilers out, idle thrust: it was breaking like an F1 car. I knew he was aiming for a hole, for me and the other aircraft in front, that got the same instruction.

Closing up on the runway extension, I could see the glideslope below me, 1000 feet more to descend. I could also see the traffic on my radar: three aircraft in a 10 miles radius. The guy in front was slowing down fast. That's when I've got the "170 knots until 5 miles" instruction. I was doing 220 knots: threw out flaps 20 and spoilers, nothing. Checked my vertical speed, about 1700 fpm: just fine to hit 4000' at the glide path intercept point.

That's when I had a choice: level off, slow down, then intercept the glide slope from above - or keep descending and slow down after.

Made the wrong choice, got in his bubble, got sent around - though it was just a small orbit really.

Lesson learned: in thight spaces, speed comes first.

Edited August 17, 2022 at 02:03 PM by Claudiu Dragomir