IFR from small unmanned airfields

[Stephen Pelly]

When taking off from a small unmanned airfield in the USA for an IFR route, is it acceptable to get airborne first then contact the center for IFR clearance? I often like to fly out of 2NC0 but I find that on the ground, although I can hear the ATC center transmitting, mostly I cannot hear the other aircraft transmitting (as would no doubt realistically be the case). I don't want to stomp on someone else's transmission, and getting some altitude helps with this.

[Sebastian Crane]

In the real world, you can depart from an airport under VFR and try to obtain IFR clearance mid-flight (keeping within airspace open to VFR flights until you receive your IFR clearance, of course), so I would expect that to be fine on VATSIM as well. You do need to have filed an IFR flight plan in advance, though, for the en-route ATC to clear.

As for whether cruising in IFR-only airspace without clearance is permitted on VATSIM, however, I've no idea. The Code of Conduct clauses B1 and B5 seem relevant, but don't address clearance.

Finally, you could simply send a text message to the distant Clearance Delivery ATC station. It might break the realism a little, but you can already telephone many ATC services in real life as an alternative to radio, so maybe instant messaging ATC isn't far off!

[Tim Waldon]

Hello Stephen,

First step would be to check your VATSIM client and see which ATC facility is controlling the airspace above your airport. In your case, it was Center. If a controller is online, contact them and ask if they are covering your uncontrolled airport for your departure. There is a very good chance they are (VATSIM top-down model). You definitely would not want to move about the airport or takeoff until you have this information first. The controller will instruct you on how to proceed, by issuing your clearance on the ground or advising you otherwise. In my VATSIM experiences with Center in the USA (my home country), they have always given my clearance on the ground if their airspace is above my airport.

[Dustin Rider]

All of the above is true, Stephen, but you are totally within the realm of realism by departing a non-towered airport under VFR and picking up an IFR clearance once airborne. Few pilots use this technique on the network which is probably why I always get a big kick whenever someone does.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Yep, this would be perfectly okay.

First of all -- 2NC0 (Mountain Air Resort) is an AMAZING place.  There's a freeware scenery add-on for MSFS on flightsim.to, and one for X-Plane 11 for a special event a group did there which you can find at Downwindsim.com under Event #25.

Second -- the airport is non-towered and the airspace around it is Class E, so to Tim and Sebastian's points about moving around the airport and/or in the airspace around it without talking to ATC -- if you're VFR, you're perfectly permitted to do so.

Third -- with respect to filing IFR but departing VFR -- the one weird thing on VATSIM is that because of the way the radar scopes work, it may not be obvious to a controller (whether it's Ashville TRACON or Atlanta Center) that this is what you intended to do.  The controller might erroneously believe that you intended to be IFR before leaving the pavement, based on what you filed, and might chide you for entering Class E airspace IFR while not talking to ATC.  You might need to explain that you departed VFR with the intent to pick up your IFR plan later.  An option might be to file it as VFR, but, with all of the route details you intend to use once IFR.  That way a controller might see you're VFR and not bother you, but, when you call for IFR, they'll have your route details already.

Fourth -- you don't actually have to file anything; you COULD ask for a pop-up IFR after airborne.  You'd just need to give them all the route details for what you want to do verbally.  If the route's pretty simple, that might work okay.  If it's complex, I'd maybe look back to my previous paragraph for an idea.

Fifth -- I wouldn't worry too much about inadvertently stepping on other pilots.  On VATSIM we get used to the fact that we have this weird coupling of (a) realistic radio range limitations with (b) unrealistic situations were one Center controller is responsible for handling planes on the ground in all different parts of the entire ARTCC's airspace.  You get used to it after a while.  Just have patience and courtesy, particularly if a controller just issued an instruction to someone.  Allow enough time for that pilot to read back, even if you can't hear it happen.

[Stephen Pelly]

Many thanks for all the helpful comments above. I've only recently started flying in Vatsim regularly (and in VR mind you!) and I still get a little nervous that I'm going to make a mess of it. I think what I may try next time is to file an IFR plan (hence with the appropriate altitude and route) but in the comments section let the controller know that I am departing VFR and intend to pick up IFR once airborne. Do you think that's OK? If not, I'll try to time it right and call for clearance on the ground.

Just to mention that yes 2NC0 is an amazing little airport and I like it so much I bought the "paid for" version of it for FS2020. It's exhilarating accelerating downhill on the runway and then launching out into the big open valley! (Admittedly, the reverse process of landing there usually goes less well...).

[Dustin Rider]

It's perfectly fine to add that to your remarks, but it's a little redundant. So long as you are squawking VFR (1200) while you're departing, there really should be no confusion. If there is, that's on the controller and not on you. I don't honestly remember if I've had anyone air-file with me on the network, but it's one of those things I've always wanted to do. It is also a workload-permitting service, so if you try to air-file and I'm too busy to handle it, I might say you'll have to submit your FP online. Pop-up IFR clearances are admittedly much easier for the controller if you've already got a flight plan on file.

The bottom line here is that as you get used to the network and the pacing of ATC and pilots, you'll get a good feel for what level of realism you can likely get away with. Maybe you'll start with pop-up IFR with the FP already filed; maybe after a bit ask the controller if you can air-file with them.

[Tim Waldon]

Rob and Dustin,

Thanks for the great clarification for VFR departure scenarios. Good discussion.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Just to be on the technical side, to clarify and somewhat paraphrase Robert, if you file IFR out of an uncontrolled field, you can't "just depart VFR". Remember.. you still did file IFR. You would have to specifically request to depart VFR. (See 7110.65,  4-3-9)
I would suggest you either:

- File IFR and request IFR clearance

- File IFR and request VFR departure

- File composite flight plan (VFR to IFR) (Roberts idea of filing VFR but with what your intended IFR route is, is a great idea)

- Don't file anything (AKA VFR) and request pop-up IFR enroute

Edited October 29, 2022 at 08:44 AM by Sebastien Bartosz

[Dustin Rider]

8 hours ago, Sebastien Bartosz said:

Just to be on the technical side, to clarify and somewhat paraphrase Robert, if you file IFR out of an uncontrolled field, you can't "just depart VFR". Remember.. you still did file IFR. You would have to specifically request to depart VFR.

This isn't true at all. Just because you have an IFR flight plan on file does not obligate you in any way to depart IFR, nor does it mean you must request a VFR departure from the overlying air traffic control provider. Weather is the only controlling factor as to whether or not you may depart a non-towered airport under VFR.

Paragraph 4-3-9 is, as far as I know because I never had to use it, available for an aircraft who has been issued their IFR clearance but is told to hold for release due to traffic. This paragraph gives the controller leeway to release an IFR aircraft under VFR until they reach a point where they may activate their IFR clearance. Now the responsibility for the separation of those aircraft falls to the VFR pilot while the controller advises the other aircraft of the VFR departure.

8 hours ago, Sebastien Bartosz said:

File IFR and request VFR departure

A radar controller would be unable to approve this except under the provisions of 4-3-9, or when issuing an SVFR clearance from an airport in Class E airspace which is a controlled airport, but non-towered.

8 hours ago, Sebastien Bartosz said:

File composite flight plan (VFR to IFR) (Roberts idea of filing VFR but with what your intended IFR route is, is a great idea)

This is a pretty good idea, but is more useful if you want to conduct a significant part of your flight under VFR and then pick up an IFR clearance closer to your destination. VATSIM is the only place where ATC has access to VFR flight plans; real world controllers can only see your IFR flight plan if you filed one.

8 hours ago, Sebastien Bartosz said:

Don't file anything (AKA VFR) and request pop-up IFR enroute

This is the riskiest move because now you're counting on the controller having the time to file your flight plan for you. For real world and on VATSIM there's never a guarantee that the controller may be able to do this. Fortunately, on VATSIM all you have to do is file electronically, but in the real world you'd be left trying to get in touch with FSS on a frequency you don't normally use trying to remember how to file an ICAO flight plan while still trying to fly the airplane and avoiding that cloud layer.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Good points, Dustin. I think you're right on the "depart VFR" stuff.
And for the other 2 points, I agree, the VATSIMisms allows to get away with certain things 😉

[Tobias Dammers]

Indeed - an IFR flight plan is mandatory in order to conduct an IFR flight, but your flight will not actually gain IFR status until you have received and acknowledged an IFR clearance. You can have the IFR flight plan on file, depart VFR, and then get your IFR clearance in the air.

It's just that on VATSIM, as has been explained, controllers may not immediately realize this, because it's not something people do a lot. But as long as you do everything correctly, and explain what you're doing when asked, you should not get into any kind of trouble.