Done a couple flights, and I have questions.

[Dan Moos]

I have completed a couple flights on VATSIM, and I have some questions. I should start by saying my experience thus far is abundantly positive. My flights were both in the Seattle area, and the controllers were top notch. If you handled Caravan N25832 last night (Tues) or last Sunday night, thanks for your great work!

My experience level is that I am a RL private pilot who got as far as passing my instrument rating written test before I met my eventual wife, and shall we say, my funds were diverted. It's been 14 years since I've flown the real thing. 

My approach to VATSIM was to just install the relevant software, and just assume using RL comms phraseology and procedures would work. This approach was indeed successful, which is a testament to what you guys are doing. 

I did run across a couple things that I wasn't sure about.  First, last night the only controller in the Seattle ARTCC working was Center. I called them to get my IFR clearance. The reply I got was "Clearance on request", a phrase I never encountered IRL. Not knowing for sure what to do, I just said "Ready to copy clearance".  After a bit of time (he was pretty busy with other traffic), the controller got back to me with my clearance. I'm wondering what "clearance on request" meant, and what was expected from me at that point.

My second question concerns what happens when the controller goes offline for the night. Here's the scenario: I was on an IFR flight from KBLI to KSEA. Conditions were complete VMC. My filed and cleared flight plan's last waypoint was KSEA. The controller went offline just as I reached the waypoint just before the airport (the Paine VOR). So at this point, I didn't have an approach assigned. Had the controller stayed online, I would have expected to be assigned an approach, and given vectors (or told to fly that approach as published beginning at the Paine VOR).   As it happens,  VMC conditions made it simple to treat KSEA like any uncontrolled field, and use the CTAF appropriately. I did, and coordinating with the other few planes in the air worked just as it would have at a RL uncontrolled field.

But if conditions had been hard IMC (they were a couple days ago there), I would have been stuck with no filed route to the field. Basically a lost comms situation. My memory from real life is that you just fly what you filed and were cleared for at this point, but not having an approach filed or assigned, in VATSIM or IRL, I'm not sure what the procedure is. Do I just pick a published approach, fly it, and make CTAF calls? No separation is ensured that way (IRL or in VATSIM), so that seems dodgy.  I'm sure my real life training covered this, but I have no memory of it. 

[Matthew Sweeney]

Hi Dan!  As far as your first question goes, “Clearance on request” means the controller has acknowledged your request for clearance, but cannot immediately provide it to you because he/she is dealing with higher priority issues at the moment. They will get back to you as soon as they can. If you have been waiting for 10 minutes or so, you may need to request clearance again as they may have forgotten you.

For your second question, if VMC, do just like you said. Treat the situation as if you either canceled IFR in the air and are now VFR -or- as if you were cleared for a visual approach. If IMC, you would have to pick an approach and fly it. In real world there would be separation because once the controller realizes comms were lost, he/she will clear the area. When I file IFR real world, I like to make my last point in the flight plan an IF/IAF for a given approach into the field. That way, the controller knows where I am going if comms are lost.

Hope this helps,

Matt

[Tim Waldon]

Your previous IFR training will definitely help you while flying online with VATSIM. But there are slight differences between real and simulated procedures, since controllers are always logging on and off the network. Matthew provided great answers to your questions.

An additional point regarding controllers going offline (on VATSIM), you have the option to continue your flight IFR or VFR despite the weather conditions at KSEA. If you decide to stay IFR, just select the appropriate approach and join the flow of traffic while announcing your position and intentions on 122.8. If you noticed during your flight, the other inbound IFR traffic in the area didn't cancel IFR and join the VFR traffic pattern just because the controller logged off and the field was VMC. You can decide how to proceed. Also, that scenario you encountered doesn't mean you need to revert to lost com procedures.

You'll get the hang of it as you get more experience online, and you'll be able to better differentiate between simulated and real flying. I still spend a lot of time observing SimAware and VAT-Spy, constantly learning about other pilots and controllers.

Edited November 11, 2022 at 01:33 AM by Tim Waldon
Modified closing statement.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

And, basically, suspend a little of your expectations for realism when flying in situations which would normally be under positive ATC while the relevant positions are not staffed on the network.  Do your best to coordinate via CTAF, and cross your fingers that other pilots will do the same, but don't get too caught up in expecting that to work out perfectly every time. 

[Don Desfosse]

Brings me back to when I was a new instrument student.....  I got the same "clearance on request" and had no clue, but trying to interpret it literally, I assumed it meant "I'll give you your clearance when I receive your request", which I thought a little funny for just that split second as my thumb was starting to depress the PTT switch, and cheerfully said, "Yep, I'm requesting it now!" ...  My instructor's head quickly fell into his hand and he quickly popped on frequency saying, "I'll teach him...."  No further comment on that from the controller but I imagine he was chuckling....   And, of course, over the years, a few of my own instrument students did the same thing to me.... 🙂  

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I think it stems from our tendency to eliminate what we consider to be superfluous words from our transmissions.  Yet, language is an imperfect tool.  Consider the various interpretations of "Clearance on request." versus "Your clearance is on request."

It opens up a greater topic of language imprecision in aviation incidents and reinforces the importance of standard phraseology.  Even the standard phraseology has flaws, though, and that's a primary reason why it is revised over time.

But, I digress... lol.