[1st April 2023] Cross The Pond Westbound - Discussion Thread

[Nick Marinov]

Cross The Pond - Wesbound 2023

Welcome to the discussion thread for CTP Westbound 2023!

We are pleased to announce the return of Cross the Pond, this time for a westbound journey, taking off on April 1st, 2023. 

Cross The Pond is the largest and longest-running event on VATSIM (over 20 years). The event is biannual flying between the two sides of the Atlantic Ocean - Westbound in the spring and Eastbound in the autumn. Hundreds of pilots light up the virtual skies, and dozens of controllers burn both ends of the candle to provide professional ATC service over the Ocean and the Continents.

Our teams of volunteers are already working in the background for this next edition, so we will be posting updates soon after the start of 2023!

To keep in touch with news regarding the event, you can follow us on our social media and look for the hashtag #CTP23W
Twitter: https://twitter.com/vatsimctp
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vatsimctp/

We also have a dedicated discord server, which is going to get busier as we approach show-day. To join us, head over to ctp.vatsim.net and follow the instructions on your screen.

Edited December 26, 2022 at 11:30 AM by Nick Marinov

[Adel Kamel]

Hi there,
Is a lottery planned to participate in this event?

[Nick Marinov]

2 hours ago, Adel Kamel said:

Hi there,
Is a lottery planned to participate in this event?

Yes, much like the last time. We will be releasing more details about it as the event date gets closer. 

[Nick Marinov]

CTP Update

With preparations for the event starting to kick off behind the scenes, we wanted to give you an appxomate timeline of when things are going to happen:

• Airport voting - first half of February
• Airport announcement - second half of February
• Opening of the lottery signup - first week of March
• Something something about a pilot webinar 👀 - first week of March
• Some help for those pilots who are not so familiar with the ocean - first half of March
• Pilot bookings are available - 1.5-2 weeks before the event
• Slot confirmation window - first half of the week before the event
• Showtime - April 1st!!!

Although this is a rough guidline, we have prepared some dates. Bear in mind that they might move slighly by a day or two, depending on various other factors. To see the full list of dates, click HERE.

With this, we also have been asked who is behind the organisation of the event. We have prepared a small document, describing the structure of CTP, who are the faces behind the slots, routes, and alkward jokes on social media, as well as some vacancies that you might be interesting to apply for 😉 To view this, click HERE.

If you have went through the whole document (cookie for you if you did 🍪), you will have noticed that we are looking for two people to fill in the Data & Logistics Assistant and Pilot Training & Outreach Lead on the Event Team. If you would like to get involved, send an email with a quick description of how you can benefit the event to ctp(at)vatsim.net and we will get back to you.

To keep in touch with news regarding the event, you can follow us on our social media and look for the hashtag #CTP23W
Twitter: https://twitter.com/vatsimctp
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/vatsimctp/

We also have a dedicated discord server, which is going to get busier as we approach show-day. To join us, head over to ctp.vatsim.net and follow the instructions on your screen.

[Austin Jones]

Can we please add some cargo-centric airports as voting options please? Like KIAH, EBLG, ELLX, KMEM, KSDF, KCVF, EDDK, EDFH, EGPK, etc.

It would be nice to be able to actually fly some freighter slots for CTP.

[Filippo Genoni]

It's up to the vACCs/Divisions to choose which airport(s) to apply, the organisers don't choose them. So unless a rappresentative from that airspace files an application for one of the airports you have mentioned, I'm fairly sure we will never see it in the voting phase.

 

Kind Regards,

[Nick Marinov]

5 hours ago, Austin Jones said:

Can we please add some cargo-centric airports as voting options please? Like KIAH, EBLG, ELLX, KMEM, KSDF, KCVF, EDDK, EDFH, EGPK, etc.

It would be nice to be able to actually fly some freighter slots for CTP.

As said above, airports that are put up for voting are the ones that apply 😄 

[Nick Marinov]

I am pleased to announce that the airport voting for Cross the Pond Westbound 2023 has now opened. VATSIM members can now vote for their top airports until 19th February (Sunday) 2100 UTC via the CTP website.

Members can vote for their 1st, 2nd and 3rd favourite choice on either side of the ocean, earning that airport 5, 3 and 2 points respectively. The Planning Team of the event will then meet with the user’s vote to include your favourite airports and occasionally a choice of their own.

A full list of the airports available on each side of the ocean are listed at the end of my post.

On behalf of the Planning Team, good luck to all the airports!

#CTP23W
Discord: https://ctp.vatsim.net/discord/

The airports on the ‘Europe and Africa’ side of the ocean are:

• Lajes - LPLA
• Vienna Intl. - LOWW
• London Gatwick - EGKK
• Mohammed V Intl. - GMMN
• Istanbul - LTFM
• Dublin - EIDW
• Milan Malpensa - LIMC
• Cape Town Intl. - FACT
• Amsterdam Schiphol - EHAM
• Murtala Muhammed - DNMM
• Hamburg Helmut Schmidt - EDDH
• East Midlands - EGNX
• Paris Charles de Gaulle - LFPG
• Zagreb Franjo Tudjman - LDZA
• Athens Eleftherios Venizelos - LGAV
• Madrid Barajas - LEMD
• Helsinki - EFHK
• Copenhagen - EKCH

The airports on the ‘Americas’ side of the ocean are:

• Boston Logan Intl. - KBOS
• Chicaho O’Hare Intl. - KORD
• DFW Intl. - KDFW
• Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta Intl. - KATL
• Charlotte Douglas Intl. - KCLT
• Winipeg Intl. - CYWG
• Toronto Pearson - CYYZ
• John F. Kennedy - KJFK
• Vancouver Intl. - CYYR
• Dulles Intl. - KIAD
• Princess Juliana Intl. - TNCM
• Luis Muñoz Marín Intl. - TJSJ
• Guarulhos - SBGR
• Brasilia - SBBR
• Grantley Adams Intl. - TBPB
• Pointe-a-Pitre Le Raizet - TFFR
• El Dorado Intl. - SKBO
• Ministro Pistarini Intl. - SAEZ
• Houston - KIAH
   

Edited February 13, 2023 at 11:09 PM by Nick Marinov

[Brad Littlejohn]

And for over 20 years, the US west coast still gets shunned. we've been asking for anything ZOA, ZAB, ZLA, or ZLC to be included, only to be told that it is "too far", yet they are willing to accept CYVR. Really having hard trying to understand that logic..

 

BL.

 

[Nick Marinov]

7 minutes ago, Brad Littlejohn said:

And for over 20 years, the US west coast still gets shunned. we've been asking for anything ZOA, ZAB, ZLA, or ZLC to be included, only to be told that it is "too far", yet they are willing to accept CYVR. Really having hard trying to understand that logic..

 

BL.

 

Hi Brad,

Above you see every single airport that applied and was submitted by facility staff.

[Joshua Jenkins]

Speaking of CYVR, it looks like you've got the ICAO code wrong in the announcement there 

[Brad Littlejohn]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:21 PM, Nick Marinov said:

Hi Brad,

Above you see every single airport that applied and was submitted by facility staff.

 

I understand that. The times that we have submitted something in ZLA or on the west coast, it was effectively rejected, with the rationale being that it was too far to be a decent destination; however, apparently because the Great Circle deemed YVR to be closer by 723nm, YVR was added, despite it also being on the west coast. So one can see where a place like SFO, SAN, LAX, LAS, and others may feel a bit jaded after adding their airports for selection for so long, and told a reason that doesn't make sense, since YVR also has that same limiting factor.

It got to the point where there was no use in submitting anything anymore due to those selections automatically being turned down for the same reason every time. 🤷‍♂️

 

BL.

 

[Alex Bertuccioli]

21 hours ago, Brad Littlejohn said:

 

I understand that. The times that we have submitted something in ZLA or on the west coast, it was effectively rejected, with the rationale being that it was too far to be a decent destination; however, apparently because the Great Circle deemed YVR to be closer by 723nm, YVR was added, despite it also being on the west coast. So one can see where a place like SFO, SAN, LAX, LAS, and others may feel a bit jaded after adding their airports for selection for so long, and told a reason that doesn't make sense, since YVR also has that same limiting factor.

It got to the point where there was no use in submitting anything anymore due to those selections automatically being turned down for the same reason every time. 🤷‍♂️

 

BL.

 

Brad and also Nick, I think there is a good choice between what you (Brad) said and what Nick said, the choice I think can be a "pool" where the whole community can vote for permission at 2/3 or 4 or a lot more West Coast airports being used for the CTP.

Obviously this could be seen as a drastic choice, but I believe that a global survey of the Community and with Feedback from the managers of the ARTCC of the West Coast can make everything more beautiful and optimal for the purposes of this MAGNIFICENT event 🙂

Kind regards,
Alex 🙂

[Alex Ying]

On 2/14/2023 at 8:38 PM, Brad Littlejohn said:

 

I understand that. The times that we have submitted something in ZLA or on the west coast, it was effectively rejected, with the rationale being that it was too far to be a decent destination; however, apparently because the Great Circle deemed YVR to be closer by 723nm, YVR was added, despite it also being on the west coast. So one can see where a place like SFO, SAN, LAX, LAS, and others may feel a bit jaded after adding their airports for selection for so long, and told a reason that doesn't make sense, since YVR also has that same limiting factor.

It got to the point where there was no use in submitting anything anymore due to those selections automatically being turned down for the same reason every time. 🤷‍♂️

 

BL.

 

SFO was in CTP westbound in 2021 and SEA was in Eastbound this past year, and another west coast airport I think may have been involved before, but I can't find the historical participation post at the moment.

There's been significant turnover in the planning team and the overall CTP philosophy the past few years, so it's worth submitting them. You can't get picked unless you apply, and it's a little disingenuous to complain about not being in the voting pool when the facilities themselves didn't even apply despite there being proof that they have been selected even just the past 2 years.

[Brad Littlejohn]

7 hours ago, Alex Ying said:

SFO was in CTP westbound in 2021 and SEA was in Eastbound this past year, and another west coast airport I think may have been involved before, but I can't find the historical participation post at the moment.

There's been significant turnover in the planning team and the overall CTP philosophy the past few years, so it's worth submitting them. You can't get picked unless you apply, and it's a little disingenuous to complain about not being in the voting pool when the facilities themselves didn't even apply despite there being proof that they have been selected even just the past 2 years.

I understand that; however, it's hard to call the complaint disingenuous when we had applied for a good 7 to 10 years since the event started, and wasn't even given a thought, let alone taken into consideration. At some point, one starts to think "why bother" when we keep trying year after year only to be told the same thing multiple times.

We'll try again next year, and it is a welcome sign that there is turnover in the committee who picks the fields, but it's hard to have high hopes after years of being turned down to the point where it isn't worth trying to apply because we already knew the answer and the rationale behind it.

BL.

 

[Alex Ying]

5 hours ago, Brad Littlejohn said:

I understand that; however, it's hard to call the complaint disingenuous when we had applied for a good 7 to 10 years since the event started, and wasn't even given a thought, let alone taken into consideration. At some point, one starts to think "why bother" when we keep trying year after year only to be told the same thing multiple times.

We'll try again next year, and it is a welcome sign that there is turnover in the committee who picks the fields, but it's hard to have high hopes after years of being turned down to the point where it isn't worth trying to apply because we already knew the answer and the rationale behind it.

BL.

 

I would buy that argument before 2021, but since then, seeing that west coast fields do get picked, it doesn't really apply anymore. Things change, and in this case for the better in terms of expanding the geographic regions of consideration for the event. At this point in the evolution of the event, the best people to talk to are the staff of the west coast facilities since the hold up is no longer the CTP planning team.

My main point is that your disappointment is misdirected in this modern version of CTP as compared to the previous iterations