Academy....what was the point??

[Stephen Keskitalo 977981]

It seems, then, that the area which needs reform is at the ARTCC's. Find out which ARTCC's are still clinging to the "old ways" and bring them into line with the new paradigm brought about by the Academy. This should help get rid of redundant tests.

 

Switching hats to a pilot perspective...there are certain ARTCCs (unnamed you'll note) that I will NOT fly in because I've had terribly unrealistic experiences with them. When I fly, I want everything to be as realistic as it can be from the startup checklist to the proper phraseology to the jetway coming to let the pax off the aircraft. If an aircraft model or panel isn't cutting it in realism, I get rid of it. If an ARTCC has proven unrealistic in their controlling/phraseology, I don't fly there. If VATSIM isn't cutting it in realism....

 

Before you choose to avoid certain airspace, I would recommend you send feedback to the ARTCC about your experience with them. Then they will know what to change instead of just seeing people avoid them and not knowing why.

 

You can send all the feedback you want, but the chances of it doing any good are slim to none. I don't blame bad controllers for being bad, I blame incompetent instructors for not caring that their controllers are bad, and there are PLENTY of incompetent instructors. If the instructors don't care, what good is feedback going to do?

 

If this is the case, then more oversight is the solution. Also, instructors should be tested (perhaps every year) to make sure that their teaching standards and techniques are adequate for training students to be good controllers.

[Marko Savatic 825464]

The point of the VATUSA training academy IS NOT to get you fully certified on a tower position so you can go to your home ARTCC and work tower right away. That is not the goal of academy now and I hope that it does not turn that way in the near future.

 

The point of the academy is to get you introduced into the basics, get your feet wet so you have some experience by the time you get to your home ARTCC. What the academy does is this:

 

Teaches you how to use ASRC/VRC and functions involved therein

Teaches you basics about the ATC System

Teaches you basic everyday phraseology

Gives you an oversight on what each postion in the tower does.

 

What this does is it takes some of the begginer stuff off the shoulders of the instructors at the ARTCC's. Like has been stated earlier, this is a hobby, no one is paid to be an instructor, no one is paid to be a teacher at the academy. For those of you who say that the instructors are doing a horrible job, step up and become an instructor and find out exactly what kind of dedication you need to be paitent with the newer folks and be able to teach people how to work airplanes just like the pros do it. Most of the people on here have jobs doing something else and don't devote 24/7 to being on VATSIM controlling airplanes. To go around and criticize people who devote their own time and efforts to teach others is a low blow. I offer to you, if you think you can do better, step up and do it.

 

I can honstely say that I am taking this hobby as a career because based on my experiences on VATSIM, I have decided that I want to be a controller, which is what I am in school for now. I have been on this network for 6+ years and I have given at least the past two years back as an instructor, a cheif instructor, a training administrator (I was around when the change happened to the new titles), deputy air traffic manager, academy instructor and academy [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istant director. I personally think that unless you are giving back to the community in some way other than being a controller, you don't have the right to complain about how [Mod - lovely stuff]py an instructor might be.

[Stephen Keskitalo 977981]

For those of you who say that the instructors are doing a horrible job, step up and become an instructor and find out exactly what kind of dedication you need to be paitent with the newer folks and be able to teach people how to work airplanes just like the pros do it. Most of the people on here have jobs doing something else and don't devote 24/7 to being on VATSIM controlling airplanes. To go around and criticize people who devote their own time and efforts to teach others is a low blow. I offer to you, if you think you can do better, step up and do it.

 

I can honstely say that I am taking this hobby as a career because based on my experiences on VATSIM, I have decided that I want to be a controller, which is what I am in school for now. I have been on this network for 6+ years and I have given at least the past two years back as an instructor, a cheif instructor, a training administrator (I was around when the change happened to the new titles), deputy air traffic manager, academy instructor and academy [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istant director. I personally think that unless you are giving back to the community in some way other than being a controller, you don't have the right to complain about how [Mod - lovely stuff]py an instructor might be.

 

That's great, but I must respectfully disagree with your opinion. While I have not personally said that the instructors are "[Mod - lovely stuff]py", I can tell when they are doing a [Mod - lovely stuff]py job, despite my not being an instructor. I don't need to be a chef to tell that my meal was prepared terribly; I don't need to be a legislator to be against a bill full of special interest pork. My point is, I can tell when someone's not doing their job correctly, even when I've never done that job.

 

While I believe that most VATSIM instructors do a good job, there are some who do not. These instructors who are complacent, or whatever the cause, are not, and should not be immune to criticism. They do a disservice to the next generation of controllers and instructors, in addition to the virtual pilots who must communicate with these controllers.

[Jason Sutton 879715]

In fact, I am one of the main sponsors of a proposal to the BoG and EC that would actually require increased requirements for S1's to be promoted to S3 within VATUSA.

 

You are talking about a Global proposal and not a proposal having to do solely with VATUSA, right? I wasn't aware the BOG and/or EC could impose division specific requirements. I thought only the division or region could do that.

[Richard Jenkins]

I would like to see it go global. IMO the introductory rating could use some standardization.

[Robert Ogden 985378]

In response to Marko's post:

 

I'm glad you clarified for those who have misunderstood the purpose of the VATUSA academy. I graduated from the Academy back in late November. I was checked out on TWR by mid-December and had a lot of learning to do before I got there. That wasn't because the Academy was bad, its just that there were gaps to fill and high standards to reach. I just got p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed my C3 OTS tonight and I see clearly now that the Academy WAS useful for me in the basics. I'm now working as a mentor at ZME and I can see with equal clarity how much of a huge burden is lifted that we don't have to explain things like "how to read a METAR".

 

That being said, I must defend Scott a bit in reference to the last portion of your post. Scott is both a mentor and a former Academy instructor and contributes to VATSIM plenty (not that he'd have to be an instructor to be qualified to criticize others...as the other guy pointed out). I think Scott's point was that in many situations, giving feedback does nothing but hurt the morale of the controller in question when in reality its NOT HIS FAULT! Its the fault of the Instructors who are dropping the ball and ultimately the fault of the TA's and ATM's. As for my comment about not flying through some ARTCC's airspace...trust me, they've had plenty of feedback from me

 

VATSIM is a great thing. Like all great things it could be better. I believe the Academy is something that will help produce better controllers which will eventually help produce better Instructors..and better TAs further down the line. I guess bickering on the forums isn't really helping anything, so I'm outa here to help train tomorrows Instructors. (boy that sounded cheesy )

[Bo Gercke 845743]

Why not, it takes you months NOW to get started at an ARTCC! I agree, what is the point of the academy if you have to re-learn everything at your facility.

 

 

Richard, I second your thoughts completely. It is really beginning to be absurd. The hoops one has to jump through to become a VATSIM controller is purely insane. I should not have to be a controller to pretend to be one! I think that is a thread for another time!

 

Jason Vodnansky

810003

 

SNIP...

 

Perhaps they need someone with your knowledge to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]IST them in helping student through.

 

 

Richard,

 

I may be speaking out of turn here... BUT...

 

Since the memory of the network in general is rather short, might I refer you to Jason's stat page. First, let's look at the user ID: 810003: The 3rd person on the network. IIRC spent MANY hours getting the network of the ground LONG before I, and many others were around.

 

Than to look at his numbers, certainly, anyone who was the Chief of a a facility had a hand in instruction. Over 1200 hours on the network controlling? I know that you are just illustrating a point by saying, "Hey, why don't YOU step up." but, the truth here is that Jason has "put his money where his mouth is" and has used the vast knowledge and experience in aviation to contribute to network and the community. In fact, it was Jason who took Jacksonville when Jacksonville was having some issues. He stepped in and did the best that he could with what he had, while many others in the community pointed fingers, and scoffed.

 

I appreciate the point that you are trying to make, but it's one that doesn't apply to J.V. .

 

Richard Jenkins 800012 wrote:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion about my controller skills. As for the nomex undies, no need, I don't have the time to engage in it. Several months ago we had a nice chat online while you were controlling, your enthusiasm was apparent. I would be curious to know what the BoG has specifically done in your opinion that has ruined VATSIM for you?

 

I have to say, Richard, I applaud you "manning up" and facing this head on. I've been away for a while (deployed overseas), so I'm not as close to the in's and out's of the network as I once was, but it's sure refreshing to see you, as the head of the organization step up and face some of the criticism leveled at you, and the network.

 

I can only speak for myself, and VATUSA, as that's where the majority of my experience lays, but something that the BoG should address, in my opinion, is the rediculous size of the number of people with positions that are absolutely useless. The network has become a million headed medusa with no real direction. The level of beauracracy in the region is mindboggling. I receall, as an ATM ,or a Chief, or whatever I was, that my ability to lead and effect change was hampered by people who had other interests, other than my facility, in mind. It wasn't about training, and teaching, leading, and networking. It was about reporting to somebody every two weeks, or month about roster size, training hours, numbers of people trained, and quals achieved. I don't get paid in my real job enough to generate that much paperwork; real, or electronic. I would suggest that you find people who understand the concept of VOLUNTEER leadership. I believe that the quality of people willing to volunteer to contribute is directly affected by the quality of leadership running the show.

 

I'll follow a question. Why are there so many people in, and around the network who have become "Fat Cats"? There are a number of people who are in positions who have no time online, and are never around. How can people who are so out of touch be good for the network? How can anything positive come as a result of having people, who clearly have no interest in our network, in nominated positions?

 

In addition, when people are intimidated by repercussions or direct threat not to speak out against the popular party line, it affects the quality of the network. There were several instances where I, and others, were directly threatened to tow the party line, or face repercussions. I can elaborate in email, if you'd like. The BoG is responsible for putting people like that in positions of authority. I CANNOT in good conscience call it leadership. If something ain't right, it just ain't right. There were, at one point, people who were interested in effecting positive change in the network, who had more than enough credibility, and expereince in aviation, both real, and virtual, to speak up. They were muzzled, and have since moved on to other things, or have silently slipped into the background. That's a shame. The BoG is responsible for policing those who police us. Be more involved, and be more proactive in eliminating Gestapo type authority on the network.

 

Best Regards.

[Cornell Lloyd 952716]

Gentlemen,

 

I am the director of the VATUSA Training Academy and just want to add my two or three cents. First off, I believe this topic has gone way off task (discussing other regions etc...). When you are trying to discuss a certain topic it doesn't help at all to go off on another subject. This didn't start because of Richard's controlling ability or because people don't leave feedback at the ARTCCs, so let's try to keep it on the subject of the academy.

 

As the director of the academy, I must say this forum post baffles me. The academy was started for the SOLE reason of helping the new students coming on to the network and making sure they had basic knowledge of Air Traffic Control when going to their ARTCC. This, in turn, would "speed" up the pace once students were placed in their ARTCC. We've never once said that after graduation you'd go straight to tower, actually in someways I'm against that.

 

Josh (and everyone else for the matter) your opinion is accepted and understandable. I realize there are people who disagree with the academy (sounds wierd coming from the director ), but I'm not nieve. Regardless of whether I state it I know it's the truth. Though, I will say, for every person who doesn't agree with it, there are three people that do. For those of you that support the academy I thank you very much. It's been a long road for us but my current staff is tough, we've been getting through and will continue to. We're fastly approaching our year anniversary and I hope we have many more.

 

Before I submit this post to the world (VATSIM world anyway) I'd like to ask one thing of all of you. If you have any suggestions, comments, or concerns you'd like to address I urge you to email me direct [email protected]. We are more than willing to discuss the different teaching methods, curriculum, and cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]room study setups with you.

 

 

Good Day and Happy Sailing.....oops Flying

[Dan Everette]

Yes, I do think some of the testing regimes within VATSIM are, to use your word, asinine. They are excessive, protectionist, and in some cases used as punitive measures. Inferring that I think S1's should be given keys to anything they want on the network is just wrong and anyone that has spoken with me in any depth would understand how wrong your statement is about my sentiments concerning S1 testing. In fact, I am one of the main sponsors of a proposal to the BoG and EC that would actually require increased requirements for S1's to be promoted to S3 within VATUSA. That is what we are talking about, right? Or are we talking about S1 standards in China or some other region of VATSIM?

 

I’m not sure Richard, you tell me. Your statement as President of VATSIM was general, vague, and inferred to be mocking the entire training system. This perception is not only by me, but other controllers as well.

 

If it was just me, I probably wouldn’t have said anything, but when other controllers get the same “vibeâ€

[Dan Everette]

Wanted to make a separate post regarding the Academy. I can tell you from an instructor’s point of view, that it has been an invaluable [Mod - Happy Thoughts]et. Being a member of one of those “strict facilitiesâ€

[Richard Green 810012]

 

Richard,

 

I may be speaking out of turn here... BUT...

 

Since the memory of the network in general is rather short, might I refer you to Jason's stat page. First, let's look at the user ID: 810003: The 3rd person on the network. IIRC spent MANY hours getting the network of the ground LONG before I, and many others were around.

 

Than to look at his numbers, certainly, anyone who was the Chief of a a facility had a hand in instruction. Over 1200 hours on the network controlling? I know that you are just illustrating a point by saying, "Hey, why don't YOU step up." but, the truth here is that Jason has "put his money where his mouth is" and has used the vast knowledge and experience in aviation to contribute to network and the community. In fact, it was Jason who took Jacksonville when Jacksonville was having some issues. He stepped in and did the best that he could with what he had, while many others in the community pointed fingers, and scoffed.

 

In addition, when people are intimidated by repercussions or direct threat not to speak out against the popular party line, it affects the quality of the network. There were several instances where I, and others, were directly threatened to tow the party line, or face repercussions. I can elaborate in email, if you'd like. The BoG is responsible for putting people like that in positions of authority. I CANNOT in good conscience call it leadership. If something ain't right, it just ain't right. There were, at one point, people who were interested in effecting positive change in the network, who had more than enough credibility, and expereince in aviation, both real, and virtual, to speak up. They were muzzled, and have since moved on to other things, or have silently slipped into the background. That's a shame. The BoG is responsible for policing those who police us. Be more involved, and be more proactive in eliminating Gestapo type authority on the network.

 

Best Regards.

 

Bo - I am 810012, all that means was that I was here the day they opened things up… granted I did stuff behind the scenes as well but that is irrelevant to the current topic.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I applaud Jason for helping ZJX, a person however can't really speak to what happens at the Academy unless they have hands-on knowledge of it... speaking about things by getting second hand info really isn’t a fair [Mod - Happy Thoughts]essment.

 

My comments however still hold true, before blasting something, perhaps one should find out what it is really about by taking part, or at the very least offering constructive criticism based on the facts they do know.

 

I have done both... I was an Academy instructor as well as someone who has spoken up about a few of the flaws with the Academy. With that being said, I haven't instructed there in over 6 months, so who am I to say they haven't fixed them. I would look like an idiot if I posted about a problem that was fixed 6 months ago.

 

My only current issue with the Academy is this... VATUSA has effectively made the S1 rating useless and that negates an entire level of the training scheme. We have people who are coming on with S3s who can control at APP and CTR in many parts of the world but have no real time on the scope. No matter how much simulation you do and how many canned scenarios you have, nothing can compare with learning outside of the sweatbox vacuum. If the Academy would simple remove the automatic granting of an S3 then my personal issues with it would vanish. They should leave that to ARTCCs to see that the person has not only mastered the basics, but also can integrate them with local procedures.

 

See… I was wrong I have one other issue, but it is not about the Academy per say it is about people who get a rating and jump divisions… I can understand why when one of our new graduates immediately jumps to the UK/EUD it looks to them like they are trying to byp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] the rules of the EUD.

 

I would like to see a transfer freeze on people after they get a new rating of 3 months, they can transfer inside the division, but they can’t transfer to another division until they have 3 months in grade.

 

PS. Bo - aren't you about done with D.G. yet?

[Richard Green 810012]

I'm on the verge of binning this again since my primary availability is during the day, during the week, and as such it's very hard to find someone to jump online to teach me. I'm very happy with the training I received at the Academy, but if in the end it didn't do anything for me that a few hours online would have done anyway, then what was it for? Not to toot my own horn, but I'm a Private Pilot and I work for the FAA so a lot of this is old stuff to me.

 

Josh -

 

You know I missed this part of your post entirely....

 

Perhaps you should look at VATSIM-UK or EUD, as their schedules would be more in sync with your own.

 

Sadly the vast majority of VATUSA people work during the time you have free.

 

I have had a lot of fun with controlling in Europe and the UK.... perhaps that might be a better route for you.

[Josh Brown]

I had no idea this topic would spin so far out of control or take the negative turns it has, and for that I apologize. Also, as I stated before, I have all the respect in the world for those who put their time into this hobby to make it work. Constructive criticism is not downplaying the sacrifices those people make.

 

I understand a bit more about the Academy now, but I will leave that by saying that what I was lead to expect and what I actually left with were two different things. That does NOT mean I did not learn anything or it was a waste of time or that the instructors did a bad job. I would do it over again if I had to. I simply ran into a brick wall after being told "we'll get you out to your ARTCC and controlling in no time..." only to get out there and find out I was only 5% of the way there, not 60-90%. This has been explained by those in charge.

 

I have to say I don't quite agree that the only "fun" area of VATSIM is the piloting. If that were so, then the controllers would get some kind of compensation for providing the "fun experience." I think controlling is also a part of the hobby, and as such if there is a problem with the training pipeline, it should be fixed rather than saying, "Oh well, it's wrong but do it anyways."

 

Having said all that once (and I don't need to again), I am sticking with it and will do what I can to coordinate with instructors. Since several of you recommended possibly finding a new ARTCC, and any of you recommend one?

[Richard Green 810012]

time zone?

[Richard Jenkins]

Yes, I do think some of the testing regimes within VATSIM are, to use your word, asinine. They are excessive, protectionist, and in some cases used as punitive measures. Inferring that I think S1's should be given keys to anything they want on the network is just wrong and anyone that has spoken with me in any depth would understand how wrong your statement is about my sentiments concerning S1 testing. In fact, I am one of the main sponsors of a proposal to the BoG and EC that would actually require increased requirements for S1's to be promoted to S3 within VATUSA. That is what we are talking about, right? Or are we talking about S1 standards in China or some other region of VATSIM?

 

I’m not sure Richard, you tell me. Your statement as President of VATSIM was general, vague, and inferred to be mocking the entire training system. This perception is not only by me, but other controllers as well.

 

If it was just me, I probably wouldn’t have said anything, but when other controllers get the same “vibeâ€

[Stephen Keskitalo 977981]

Now if only we could have something similar for the pilot… never mind, I’m not going to go down that road.

 

I guess you missed this-http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=14087

[Richard Green 810012]

Stephen -

 

Dan is saying that Controllers have to take training but pilots don't have to do anything save for buying FS.

[Stephen Keskitalo 977981]

Stephen -

 

Dan is saying that Controllers have to take training but pilots don't have to do anything save for buying FS.

 

I really don't want to argue semantics, but I will in the interest of defending what I wrote. I interpreted Dan as wondering why there was not also an academy for pilots like there is for controllers. My mistake was leaving out the part before the quote, I added the bolds for emphais below.

 

I’ll be the first to admit, that despite the fact that it still has some, imho growing pains, the Academy is hands-down the best initiative VATUSA has ever put forward for the controlling community (since I’ve been on the network). Now if only we could have something similar (academy for pilots is what I saw here) for the pilot… never mind, I’m not going to go down that road.

[Mike Roth 932270]

Not that it matters much, but Stephen, I read it the exact same way you did.

[David Kluempers]

I have watched this thread with obvious interest. I am sorry that Mr. Brown seemed to be under the impression that he would be controlling at a tower level upon completion of the Academy. His is not the first, but one of only a few, to have had that misunderstanding. Marko, Cornell and many others have stepped up by posting here and hopefully making things clearer for any others that might read this.

 

As for pilots, Jeff Turner asked Jason Sutton and me to get to work on setting up a pilot academy for VATUSA. We still have a way to go before we roll that out but we are moving forward. VATSIM has taken an interest in this and provided us with some input as well. VATSIM is also working hard on updating the Pilot Resource Center (PRC).

 

My final observation is that I hope that more people will find a desire to help their fellow VATUSA members by mentoring, teaching and instructing. This network is an incredible place populated by an interesting and diverse group of people. While we can’t possibly hope to live up to every member’s personal expectations we can try to remember why we came here to begin with. For most of us it was for the thrill of actually trying our hand at flying and controlling in a realistic environment. While most of my time is now taken up with administrative work for VATUSA the thing I enjoy the most is working a scope or piloting an aircraft.

[Bo Gercke 845743]

 

Okay, just went through my entire email archive for the past 3 years and I have no email from you addressing any concerns. Are these forum posts you are talking about? You have certainly never brought any of this up with me online. So, please, email me with these concerns that have been ignored by VATSIM. I'm curious now. Are we talking VATSIM or VATUSA?

 

Richard,

 

Are you interested to know if it was USA, or VATSIM, as a whole so that it gives you better perspective as to where the scope of the issue is, or because it's a way of "p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing the buck"? I agree with this from Dan:

 

I had this long laundry list of items drafted (since you opened the door) to post of specific items which caused this, but there is no need to air it here. I would offer to discuss this off-line, but then considering that each one of them were previously addressed to VATSIM and VATUSA as concerns in the past, and duly ignored, I’m not going to delude myself and think that this time will be any different.

 

Does it take coming onto the public forum to have issues addressed? In addition, at what point do we stop taking issues all the way to you to have them resolved? Because we didn't go to you with an email when we have, or had, issues fall on dead ears doesn't mean that the issues don't exist. The whole point here is that we shoudn't have to come to you to get our issues addressed and resolved, in the first place. There should be leadership in place who do have an interest in the majority, instead of pushing a small, special interest agenda. I believe that Dan and I aren't the only people on the network who feel the way that we do. I would be more interested in taking all of this stuff offline and coming up with identified problems, with suggested fixes, if I, and others, knew that proactive steps are being taken to really address the concerns of the membership. My experience is that it's more about placating the complaintant and going about business as usual, or ignoring them all together.

 

 

RG:

Don’t get me wrong, I applaud Jason for helping ZJX, a person however can't really speak to what happens at the Academy unless they have hands-on knowledge of it... speaking about things by getting second hand info really isn’t a fair [Mod - Happy Thoughts]essment.

 

My comments however still hold true, before blasting something, perhaps one should find out what it is really about by taking part, or at the very least offering constructive criticism based on the facts they do know.

 

 

Let me follow with a question. Does one have to be a RW controller to have hands-on knowledge of it? This network dispells that myth. There are a lot of people who are great controllers, and could probably do it for real. So in the same light, do I have to be an Instructor in the Academy to know what happens at the Academy? Maybe the statements made are based on facts, as that person knows them. They've gathered as much info as possible, and feel as though they have enough info to make a statement, either pro, or con.

 

PS. Bo - aren't you about done with D.G. yet?

 

July... Sometime in July barring any new developments. Got selected for orders doing some Secret Squirrel type stuff in Virginia. I went from being an lowly, simple ATC to morphing into a bunch of other stuff. "Needs of the Navy". You know? Got some UNREAL pics of some stuff out here, though... I'm not talking about drunk, neekid girls on the beach or anything. More military related. If you're interested, I'll catch you offline. Did you do some time on "The Rock"?

[Richard Green 810012]

 

 

Let me follow with a question. Does one have to be a RW controller to have hands-on knowledge of it? This network dispells that myth. There are a lot of people who are great controllers, and could probably do it for real. So in the same light, do I have to be an Instructor in the Academy to know what happens at the Academy? Maybe the statements made are based on facts, as that person knows them. They've gathered as much info as possible, and feel as though they have enough info to make a statement, either pro, or con.

 

No but to speak to the validity of the Academy someone needs to be a member of it or have instructed in it. It would be like you commenting on how a chevy drives if you drive a ford.

 

July... Sometime in July barring any new developments. Got selected for orders doing some Secret Squirrel type stuff in Virginia. I went from being an lowly, simple ATC to morphing into a bunch of other stuff. "Needs of the Navy". You know? Got some UNREAL pics of some stuff out here, though... I'm not talking about drunk, neekid girls on the beach or anything. More military related. If you're interested, I'll catch you offline. Did you do some time on "The Rock"?

 

you have my msn... and yeah I have paid a few visits... you are there at the best time of the year.

[Michael Oberg 855611]

Richard Jenkins: first off I believe you handled the situation very well. I have been a member of VATSIM for many years and have found it a great organization. I believe many people have forgot that this is a free network with volunteers that spend a great deal of time making it work. It seems the more people put into it, the more members complain (what a shame). I guess my response whould have been "If you don't like it, resign" VATSIM & VATUSA, keep up the great work...Mike

[Stephen Keskitalo 977981]

Richard Jenkins: first off I believe you handled the situation very well. I have been a member of VATSIM for many years and have found it a great organization. I believe many people have forgot that this is a free network with volunteers that spend a great deal of time making it work. It seems the more people put into it, the more members complain (what a shame). I guess my response whould have been "If you don't like it, resign" VATSIM & VATUSA, keep up the great work...Mike

 

I disagree with this statement. I believe that it is the resignations of those with experience which causes a decline in quality. The real solution is to keep on negotiating. Keep working at resolving complaints until a solution is reached.

[Dan Everette]

Okay, just went through my entire email archive for the past 3 years and I have no email from you addressing any concerns. Are these forum posts you are talking about? You have certainly never brought any of this up with me online. So, please, email me with these concerns that have been ignored by VATSIM. I'm curious now. Are we talking VATSIM or VATUSA?

 

Richard,

 

I owe you an apology. I'm sorry if you inferred that when I said that issues were addressed to VATSIM and VATUSA, that meant they were addressed to you. When I said "VATSIM" I meant the organization as a whole, from VATUSA1 upwards. I did not specifically mean "Richard Jenkins". Silly me for linking the president of the organization with responsibility for the organization.

 

I'd recommend checking your spam filters. I have 3 e-mails that I cc'd you on over the past 2 years. I didn't send them TO you, so I can see how you can't be responsible for VATSIM "ruining" my experience. It's ironic in that we used to have the exact same problem at work "never got the e-mail".. That was until we went to Exchange Server and had received and read receipts available. Ahhh well, the joys of the internet.

 

I am not the type of person who when they have a problem, immediately goes to the President of the organization with it. I believe in the chain of command, and unfortunately I guess the upper levels of the organization abide by the "no news is better than bad news" philosophy. I may be the only one "down in the trenches" who thinks this (though I doubt it): The perception that I have of the VATSIM management (VATSIM being all-inclusive), is that some of the more senior members tend to live in their ivory towers, and have really lost feeling of the pulse of the organization and what's really going on.

 

That's my perception of the current state of affairs. I guess if information isn't making all the way up, then from the top down, everything is just perfect.

 

Regards,