Ben Zwebner 906832 Posted April 1, 2007 at 04:30 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 04:30 AM I want to book a flight. It says that I should post the time of my planned flight in my "LOCAL TIME ZONE" does that mean that I should put the local time of the place where I am flying (i.e. East Coast USA) or should I use my real world local time which is 7 hours ahead of east coast USA? [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Close 936559 Posted April 1, 2007 at 04:40 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 04:40 AM I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umed it would be the Local Time Zone of the airport you where flying from Robbie Close Member of RAAFvirtual and RANvirtual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 1, 2007 at 05:13 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 05:13 AM It's the place where you live, or technically speaking the time zone of your computer's operating system. Come on, would that be logical if you wanted to fly from Hong Kong and had to spend 2 hours just calculating the right time zone? You just know that at 8PM your kids will go to sleep and you'll have time to fly. So you book from 8PM and vroute takes it from there - no matter if you live in East or West coast, or whether it is daylight saving time there or not. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Chase 974571 Posted April 1, 2007 at 05:31 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 05:31 AM Wow. Good Idea! By the Way, does the booking auto-delete when the time p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es? Matt Chase VATPAC C1 /O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 1, 2007 at 05:39 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 05:39 AM Yes, however not immediately. If I remember right, after 1 hour from estimated departure time. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Zwebner 906832 Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:05 AM Author Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:05 AM It's the place where you live, or technically speaking the time zone of your computer's operating system. Come on, would that be logical if you wanted to fly from Hong Kong and had to spend 2 hours just calculating the right time zone? You just know that at 8PM your kids will go to sleep and you'll have time to fly. So you book from 8PM and vroute takes it from there - no matter if you live in East or West coast, or whether it is daylight saving time there or not. Michal I think it would have been more logical to use ZULU time in order to eliminate all possible confusion.... [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Close 936559 Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:14 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:14 AM Ben I think what Michael is saying is that vRoute will convert it into whatever time the viewer's computer is using, is this right? Robbie Close Member of RAAFvirtual and RANvirtual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:14 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:14 AM I think UTC is only easy for people in Europe, where the timezone difference is +-2 hours and can be calculate in one's head quickly. Everything in my life is in local time zone. My kids go to sleep in local time zone, my meetings at work are in local tz. People in my country do ATC usually from 8PM local, which sometimes is 1800Z and sometimes 1900Z, depending on time of year. I come back from work at 6PM local, not at 1600Z. Why should my online activities be planned in UTC? Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:16 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:16 AM Ben I think what Michael is saying is that vRoute will convert it into whatever time the viewer's computer is using, is this right? Correct. All times in vroute are also displayed in your local time zone. If you want to fly and ATC is from 8PM in UK, it is from 8PM your local time. The logical way. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Zwebner 906832 Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:21 AM Author Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:21 AM Ben I think what Michael is saying is that vRoute will convert it into whatever time the viewer's computer is using, is this right? Correct. All times in vroute are also displayed in your local time zone. If you want to fly and ATC is from 8PM in UK, it is from 8PM your local time. The logical way. Michal now that i didnt know... VERY impressive.. So just to make sure i understood this: I post a flight for 10AM my time (3AM in NY) my system will show it as 10AM and some guy in NY will show it on his sytem as 3AM? [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:24 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:24 AM Correct. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Close 936559 Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:57 AM Posted April 1, 2007 at 07:57 AM Thats awsome and amazing!! I also must comend you on the add routes idea and a great user interface! Robbie Close Member of RAAFvirtual and RANvirtual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Abadjan 924443 Posted April 1, 2007 at 04:06 PM Posted April 1, 2007 at 04:06 PM Guys, many thnx for this program! However, i suppose it will be winderfull, if there will be an oppotunity to switch between Local and UTC time in the options. Best Regards, Artur Abadjan, VATRUS5 Membership Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Sher 976516 Posted April 3, 2007 at 07:28 AM Posted April 3, 2007 at 07:28 AM Fellow enthusiasts. VATSIM members tend to take flight simulation quite seriously, by emulating as accurately as possible the real life scenarios of flight in the real world. The proliferation of VA's and add-on realism programs is testament to this fact. One of the two mainstays of real world flight is a common time factor, which is, and always has been, ZULU time. Local time is for ground staff, p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]engers and closing time at the local pub. Ergo, to achieve the highest level of emulation we adopt all real world flight scenarios and ONLY speak in ZULU time. Anything else and you will be treated with the contempt that is usually reserved for the intellectually challenged and/or student pilots. The second mainstay universal to all pilots is caffeine. Here a little more lattitude is allowed. Keep living the dream, great program. Mervyn Sher YBRO VH-MRV (PMDG 738W) UPS579 (F1ATR75) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 3, 2007 at 07:34 AM Posted April 3, 2007 at 07:34 AM OK, I'm intellectually challenged :). I admire all the people who are able to run their daily life in UTC. I'm just an ordinary family man who has only a couple hours a week for VATSIM and sometimes has problems finding out what is 8PM in Zulu, especially immediately after a daylight saving time change. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Sher 976516 Posted April 3, 2007 at 01:39 PM Posted April 3, 2007 at 01:39 PM OK, I'm intellectually challenged . I admire all the people who are able to run their daily life in UTC. I'm just an ordinary family man who has only a couple hours a week for VATSIM and sometimes has problems finding out what is 8PM in Zulu, especially immediately after a daylight saving time change. Michal Michal You've just gone through a daylight savings time change in Poland, as you are now in the northern summer solstice. Here in Australia we've just come out of daylight savings as we go into the southern winter solstice. Imagine what it would be like for pilots to have to calculate each time zone as they cross over it, not to mention the huge computing requirements for the FMCs to amend ETA's etc into local time. So all pilots, just like the military and seafarers utilise one single time reference, which eliminates all time zones and daylight savings etc. This time zone by universal consent is Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), and begins and ends on a North-South line through the quaint village of Greenwich in the United Kingdom. So irrespective of where you are in the world, the GMT remains the same. noon in Greenwich is noon in Poland and is read in Universal Time Clock (UTC) format called ZULU time. In ZULU time there is no am or pm, time is measured on a 24 hour clock. So noon GMT is shown as 1200Z. And remember, that's the same 1200Z all over the world. This universal timekeeping allows us all to have the same time format without having to calculate any differences. Simple. However, to live your normal non-flying life in ZULU time could in most instances be impractical, as now the time zone differences do come into play. 1200Z in Greenwich is 8:00pm in Western Australia (where I am), and probably about 3-4:00pm in Poland. So you guys are in daylight at 1200Z and I'm in darkness, so practically we can't all have our midday meal at 1200Z or we'll screw up our own biological time clocks. We therefore revert to LOCAL time at home. I hope that this helps you clear up your difficulties with UTC. I fyou need any further help or eplanations you're more than welcome to email me at [email protected] if you wish to keep such communications private. Alternatively ask your children about UTC. I've found that my 7 year old son knows more about the computer, how to program the video/dvd machine and generally about life itself than I seem to at the moment. Blue Skies Merv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 3, 2007 at 06:18 PM Posted April 3, 2007 at 06:18 PM Mervyn, I'm an aviation engineer by education, and surprise - I know what UTC is. I also understand why people around the world use it for reference. Your explanation, while technically 100% correct, appears to me to be possibly based on a wrong understanding of what exactly is the feature that vroute is delivering to the users. I am recognizing that in the USA, almost every ATC booking website I've ever seen was using Pacific, Central or Eastern time, which was extremely confusing to me at all times. There must have been a reason why they used local time not UTC, right? I guess it was simply more user friendly. So I tried to follow the same user friendliness principle in vroute. Everything is stored on server in UTC. Actually, the server is not even aware what timezone the client is living in. It is the client side software that silently converts everything to the user's local time. No matter if you live in Australia or Honduras, DST or not, you can check what time is the ATC booking at in KJFK_TWR and you will understand the answer with no uncertainty. The KFJK controller does not need to know what is the difference between UTC and his local time - he just books ATC in local time zone and vroute takes care of the rest. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Close 936559 Posted April 3, 2007 at 09:20 PM Posted April 3, 2007 at 09:20 PM Merv, I believe this is good, it means WE don't have to change anything to see the times. Ill see it as 3pm you come online for example and youll see it as 9am Robbie Close Member of RAAFvirtual and RANvirtual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Sher 976516 Posted April 4, 2007 at 03:34 AM Posted April 4, 2007 at 03:34 AM Michal I owe you a very sincere and grovelling apology. The only defense that I can offer is that I suffer from recurring foot in mouth disease. When I originally replied to your posting regarding the subject of time zones I ashamedly admit that I had not studied the vRoute program in depth, and had incorrectly [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umed or possible misinterpreted what you wrote thinking that you perhaps did not understand the vagaries of UTC and time zones. I now stand totally corrected. The vRoute program is a brilliant bit of add-on and I for one appreciate very much not only the time and effort that you no doubt spent in developing it, but that once developed you released it as freeware to the FS community. Thank you for that. Sincerely Merv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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