Matthew Oliver 971157 Posted April 9, 2007 at 01:45 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 01:45 AM (edited) I would love to get a final word on the use of the ATC channel! Some say we can and some say we can not. I think we should be able to use it for opening and closing of CTR position, and for use between CTR's when no other method of contact is working. However, I just want a final answer. No extra stuff with this rule and that, just a yes or no from VATUSA1 and an expenation for his descision. I can deal with either way, but want the rule enforced for all! Edited April 9, 2007 at 02:16 AM by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Temple 880167 Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:07 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:07 AM Matthew, If you can take the time to ask the question in a professional manner I will take the time to explain my intentions for the ATC Channel in the new Division policy. Matthew Temple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Oliver 971157 Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:13 AM Author Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:13 AM Can we use it or can we not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Oliver 971157 Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:16 AM Author Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:16 AM Ok, actually check the first post again, I've edited it so that is a little more proffesional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Moskovich Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:20 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:20 AM I honestly do not see how the original post was unprofessional. But I agree with Matt O. on this one. ZTL ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Pinto 964946 Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:29 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:29 AM The use of guard channel/ATC Channel within VATUSA is discouraged. This is a VATSIM policy defined in the "CODE OF CONDUCT" and it applies to any guard transmission, and ATC transmissions including announcements of position openings and closings. This restriction is the result of misuse and excessive transmissions heard by all pilots and ATC. Guard has commonly been used as a way to make announcements in the past, and it has been determined by VATSIM HQ and VATUSA that other resources are available which make such announcements unwarranted. When necessary, broadcasts will be made by supervisory personnel using the privileged ".WALL" function. If you cannot reach a pilot by the use of a private message, it is unlikely that guard will work either. Use of the ATC Channel is limited to extreme emergencies only. Loss of voice or text is an example of when not to use it or when a you are unable to contact a pilot. If you feel you must use the guard frequency, contact a VATSIM staff member or supervisor before transmitting on 121.5. Even english being a second language to me and I did understand the message... ________________________________________ Bruno Pinto VATME - OOMM - C3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Ridderhoff 873800 Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:30 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:30 AM Ok, seriously people. I've only been back on these VATSIM Forums for a couple weeks after disappearing from them for ages due to ridiculous threads like this. Don't make me go disappearing from them again. What part of this is so hard for everybody to understand? The current policy says "don't use them." So, if everybody's so cotton-pickin' concerned about whether or not you can use them, DON'T. That simple. Doesn't matter what your neighbors do. Just DON'T; let your neighbors worry about it. Mr. Temple said he would explain his intentions "...in the new Division policy" which obviously is forthcoming (and obviously not in a matter of minutes or even hours, in all likelihood). I'm guessing the VATUSA staff has bigger things to worry about, like how to fill half of a Division worth of vacant staff slots, so frankly I'm not too worried about whether or not I can say I'm open or closed on the ATC channel versus PMing my neighbors. Geeze-o-pete... /s/ Josh Ridderhoff ZLC Senior Controller Fly ZLC! | ZLC Pilot & Controller Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Oliver 971157 Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:35 AM Author Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:35 AM What,,,,,,,,there are alot of positions open now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Horan 901577 Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:44 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 02:44 AM What,,,,,,,,there are alot of positions open now? If you had bothered to read the posts you dragged up for no reason (Here, for example).. USA2 and USA3 have both recently opened up. Matt www.vatsim.net/prc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Whitley 952478 Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:37 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:37 AM Maybe the question keeps arising because this is what is being taught in the VATUSA Academy: Quote from Academy Literature... The ATC Frequency The alternate option to the chat box is the ATC Frequency. The use of this interphone has always been the topic of discussion as many controllers have abused its use. It is used way too often as a means of general chit-chat between controllers, and since it is available to all within a specific range, it tends to become annoying when used for that reason. It should be noted that one it's only correct uses is to announce the opening and closing of a position by a controller. Any other action taken on this frequency can be deemed abuse, and Supervisors have begun to monitor it very closely. The alias required to use this frequency is / where is the message you are broadcasting. Dennis WWW.VATUSA.NET Previous Management New ATC Click Here http://flightsimx.cyclops.amnesia.com.au/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Oliver 971157 Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:40 AM Author Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:40 AM I guess my last post wasn't understood by all:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Jason Vodnansky 810003 Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:48 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:48 AM 1) Nowhere (unless it was removed during an edit) was anything said about the use of "guard". The question was raised about the "ATC" channel. This channel is NOT received by pilots. To imply otherwise is just flat wrong. 2) According to CoC, C-9, This is the only rule I have found that speaks to the ATC Channel as it applies to controllers, states that and I quote... 9. Controllers should not carry on private conversations between themselves, pilots or other individuals on the active communication frequency, the ATC channel or on the “guard†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Jason Vodnansky 810003 Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:52 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 03:52 AM Seeing the few posts that appeared while I was writing my last post... I am confused, VATUSA Academy is teaching TO use the ATC channel, and yet a policy exists against its usage??? Somehow I am NOT surprised... Jason Vodnansky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Oliver 971157 Posted April 9, 2007 at 04:22 AM Author Posted April 9, 2007 at 04:22 AM Give that man a prize!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornell Lloyd 952716 Posted April 9, 2007 at 04:42 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 04:42 AM Seeing the few posts that appeared while I was writing my last post... I am confused, VATUSA Academy is teaching TO use the ATC channel, and yet a policy exists against its usage??? Somehow I am NOT surprised... Jason Vodnansky The ATC Frequency The alternate option to the chat box is the ATC Frequency. The use of this interphone has always been the topic of discussion as many controllers have abused its use. It is used way too often as a means of general chit-chat between controllers, and since it is available to all within a specific range, it tends to become annoying when used for that reason. It should be noted that the ATC frequency shall NOT be used unless absolutely necessary. Any other action taken on this frequency can be deemed abuse, and Supervisors have begun to monitor it very closely. The alias required to use this frequency is / where is the message you are broadcasting. Changed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Jason Vodnansky 810003 Posted April 9, 2007 at 04:53 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 04:53 AM I want to add one more thing to this discussion... Nowhere is it stated that the ATC Channel usage is prohibited. It is simply discouraged. Having said that, it seems that, the user may make his/her own choice in using it. According to what is written, the bottom line is that no one can tell you you can not use the ATC channel. Hence, no disciplinary action can be taken against you for using it. Regards, Jason Vodnansky 810003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ogden 985378 Posted April 9, 2007 at 05:09 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 05:09 AM The VATUSA division policy about the ATC channel currently prohibits its use pretty clearly except in "extreme emergencies". That policy will probably change in the next few weeks as the new VATUSA1 comes in. This isn't difficult, but certainly seems to be a favorite forum topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Jason Vodnansky 810003 Posted April 9, 2007 at 05:37 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 05:37 AM Robert, The VATUSA division policy about the ATC channel currently prohibits its use pretty clearly except in "extreme emergencies". That policy will probably change in the next few weeks as the new VATUSA1 comes in. This isn't difficult, but certainly seems to be a favorite forum topic. While we wait for the upcoming policy, could I ask you to show me where it is stated so clearly that the ATC Channel usage is prohibited. I simply am not finding such a statement anywhere. If you have found such a policy, please quote the reference so we may put this discussion to rest and we have a CLEAR answer. I thank you in advance for your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance in researching this information to aid our fellow users. Regards, J. Jason Vodnansky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ogden 985378 Posted April 9, 2007 at 05:47 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 05:47 AM Robert, The VATUSA division policy about the ATC channel currently prohibits its use pretty clearly except in "extreme emergencies". That policy will probably change in the next few weeks as the new VATUSA1 comes in. This isn't difficult, but certainly seems to be a favorite forum topic. While we wait for the upcoming policy, could I ask you to show me where it is stated so clearly that the ATC Channel usage is prohibited. I simply am not finding such a statement anywhere. If you have found such a policy, please quote the reference so we may put this discussion to rest and we have a CLEAR answer. I thank you in advance for your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance in researching this information to aid our fellow users. Regards, J. Jason Vodnansky The division policies for VATUSA are clearly displayed on the website. You of all people know full well how to access division and regional policies (see the dozens of posts you've started elsewhere). Look fast, because it will change soon and you won't have anything left to argue about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted April 9, 2007 at 06:15 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 06:15 AM The division policies for VATUSA are clearly displayed on the website. You of all people know full well how to access division and regional policies (see the dozens of posts you've started elsewhere). Look fast, because it will change soon and you won't have anything left to argue about. And still no reference posted as JV asked... AD P.S. - I can think of about 4 posts that JV has started in the past... not sure where "dozens" comes from... Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Ridderhoff 873800 Posted April 9, 2007 at 06:32 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 06:32 AM And still no reference posted as JV asked... I'll give ya one... http://www.vatusa.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=PN_Content&file=index&req=visit&artid=44 At that URL, it states: The use of ... ATC Channel within VATUSA is discouraged. This is a VATSIM policy defined in the "CODE OF CONDUCT" and it applies to ... ATC transmissions including announcements of position openings and closings. ... Use of the ATC Channel is limited to extreme emergencies only. ..." (emphasis added). Think that just about sums it up. Am I the only one that doesn't think that could be much clearer? /s/ Josh Ridderhoff ZLC Senior Controller Fly ZLC! | ZLC Pilot & Controller Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted April 9, 2007 at 07:06 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 07:06 AM And still no reference posted as JV asked... I'll give ya one... http://www.vatusa.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=PN_Content&file=index&req=visit&artid=44 At that URL, it states: The use of ... ATC Channel within VATUSA is discouraged. This is a VATSIM policy defined in the "CODE OF CONDUCT" and it applies to ... ATC transmissions including announcements of position openings and closings. ... Use of the ATC Channel is limited to extreme emergencies only. ..." (emphasis added). Think that just about sums it up. Am I the only one that doesn't think that could be much clearer? I'll add emphasis on the only word I see on that... "discouraged" No where does it say "prohibited" which is what JV is asking for a reference of... Please learn to argue properly people. To me it's black and white... you're giving an interpretation of it and not reading it for what it actually says. G'night. AD Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Ridderhoff 873800 Posted April 9, 2007 at 07:11 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 07:11 AM No where does it say "prohibited" What it says is "Use of the ATC Channel is limited to extreme emergencies only." In other words, if it isn't an "extreme emergency" (which obviously rules out transmissions such as position openings/closings & shift changes), it is prohibited. That's what "limited to" means. G'night I second that one! Time to hit the bunk. /s/ Josh Ridderhoff ZLC Senior Controller Fly ZLC! | ZLC Pilot & Controller Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strad 827369 Posted April 9, 2007 at 08:37 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 08:37 AM The current policy is very confusing. When I see it is "discouraged" then it is up to the controller to decide if he wants to use it or not. However, when I see "Use of the ATC Channel is limited to extreme emergencies only." I don't know what to think because I have no clue what "extreme emergencies" are! Is an extreme emergency not being able to raise another controller asking about a pilot who has not been handed off to him and is about to conflict with other traffic or what? Someone please tell me what "extreme emergencies" are! Additionally, I think the ATC Channel is something for VATSIM to decide, not VATUSA and the policy -which ever one is chosen- (or should I say which ever one is clarified) should be uniform throughout the network. Personally, the past couple of years I have never seen the ATC channel be used for general, private chat. I've only seen it been used recently for the opening/closing of positions and do not find it a nuisance at all but actually helpful. My suggestion for VATSIM would be to place a ban on general/private chat over the ATC channel while allowing the announcements of closing/opening a position as long as it is not excessive announcements. Ryan Strad ZOA - Senior Controller ATC-CTI Student Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Georg 811874 Posted April 9, 2007 at 10:46 AM Posted April 9, 2007 at 10:46 AM Gentlemen, I don´t want to disturb an internal discussion in another´s division board, but I need to note that the Code of Conduct was indirectly quoted wrong here. The terms "ATC channel" and "Guard frequency" were mixed up. To clarify this up, let me quote the relevant p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]us from the CoC in full length (CoC, controllers conduct, para 9): 9. Controllers should not carry on private conversations between themselves, pilots or other individuals on the active communication frequency, the ATC channel on ProController© or on the “guard†best regards, Martin Georg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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