luc Richard Posted April 10, 2007 at 07:46 PM Posted April 10, 2007 at 07:46 PM Hi, I tried to input the route CYUL - KDCA V282 BUGSY SYR J59 PSB SHILO V93 BAL a valid route I get this ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint V28 Any idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ogden 985378 Posted April 10, 2007 at 09:48 PM Posted April 10, 2007 at 09:48 PM sounds to me like you left out the 2 in V282 when you tried to enter it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luc Richard Posted April 11, 2007 at 03:28 PM Author Posted April 11, 2007 at 03:28 PM Nop What you see is what I input and the error I got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted April 11, 2007 at 03:52 PM Posted April 11, 2007 at 03:52 PM Try this: HUMUS V282 BUGSY SYR J59 PSB SHILO V93 BAL vroute might have not swallowed the bit "CYUL V282 BUGSY" because the airway V282 does not contain CYUL but YUL VOR. So try "YUL V282 BUGSY" or "HUMUS V282 BUGSY" for the first bit of your flightplan, this should work. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted April 12, 2007 at 08:56 AM Posted April 12, 2007 at 08:56 AM Hey Luc, did this route work? EDIT: I just tried adding it myself and it does work perfectly: YUL V282 BUGSY SYR J59 PSB SHILO V93 BAL Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luc Richard Posted April 12, 2007 at 04:11 PM Author Posted April 12, 2007 at 04:11 PM Hi Andreas, Hey Luc, did this route work? EDIT: I just tried adding it myself and it does work perfectly: YUL V282 BUGSY SYR J59 PSB SHILO V93 BAL They both work, but I don't want to modify a route to fit vroute. It's not the only vectors vroute dosn't recognise. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted April 12, 2007 at 04:20 PM Posted April 12, 2007 at 04:20 PM Hi Luc, but the route that is for example in FlightAware is simply wrong. The airway V282 does not contain CYUL but YUL VOR. It is logical that a route-analyzer cannot positively validate the wrong route because it cannot connect CYUL and BUGSY because V282 does not contain CYUL. All I changed in the "real" route was replacing CYUL by YUL, that's it. This is not change at all, except that I made it interpretable to vroute or any other route-analyzer. I do not understand your point "I don't want to modify a route to fit vroute" Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luc Richard Posted April 12, 2007 at 07:57 PM Author Posted April 12, 2007 at 07:57 PM Hi Andreas, I understand your point. CYUL - CYVO YUL V352 J484 YMW J484 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint V352 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint J484 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint J48 What's wrong with this one Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Catherwood 903683 Posted April 12, 2007 at 08:27 PM Posted April 12, 2007 at 08:27 PM Hi Andreas, I understand your point. CYUL - CYVO YUL V352 J484 YMW J484 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint V352 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint J484 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint J48 What's wrong with this one Regards, V352 J484 - must have the fix (intersection, NDB, VOR, etc) between the airways YMW J484 - must have an ending fix KZSE C3/Facilities Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Frederik Dion 819740 Posted April 12, 2007 at 09:30 PM Posted April 12, 2007 at 09:30 PM V352 and J484 are colocated on this leg. Does Vroute allow high level transition? "V352/J484" for instance. Jean-Frederik Dion VATCAN10 - CZUL Chief EuroScope Beta Tester / Board of Designers GVCCS Beta Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Catherwood 903683 Posted April 13, 2007 at 12:05 AM Posted April 13, 2007 at 12:05 AM as far as I know you'll have to pick which one, either V352 or J484, but not both between two fixes. KZSE C3/Facilities Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 13, 2007 at 04:21 AM Posted April 13, 2007 at 04:21 AM You need a point between V352 and J484 where you switch routes. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luc Richard Posted April 13, 2007 at 02:49 PM Author Posted April 13, 2007 at 02:49 PM Hi, So, the route you'll have to input is this one: CYUL-CYVO : YUL V352 SASID YMW J484 YVO V352 and J484 are colocated on this leg. Does Vroute allow high level transition? "V352/J484" for instance. I guess the anwser is no Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted April 13, 2007 at 03:09 PM Posted April 13, 2007 at 03:09 PM Why don't you just try YUL J484 YVO ? Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luc Richard Posted April 13, 2007 at 06:06 PM Author Posted April 13, 2007 at 06:06 PM Hi Andreas, Why don't you just try YUL J484 YVO ? Because it's not a valid route, the exit point is v352 sasid Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted April 13, 2007 at 06:44 PM Posted April 13, 2007 at 06:44 PM Exit point of what? Are you referring to a DP? Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luc Richard Posted April 13, 2007 at 08:31 PM Author Posted April 13, 2007 at 08:31 PM At an airport you have entry /exit point to join your route to avoid conflict. Usually the departing and/or arriving point or fix are not the same. Exit point of what? Are you referring to a DP? This is what I meant when I wrote '' I don't want to modify a route to fit Vroute'' but if there is no other way, I'll live with it, no problem. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Frederik Dion 819740 Posted April 13, 2007 at 08:52 PM Posted April 13, 2007 at 08:52 PM YUL J484 YVO doesn't work but YUL V352 YMW V487 YVO; YUL SASID YMW YVO or YUL V352 YMW J484 YVO It's all the same ATCwise. Jean-Frederik Dion VATCAN10 - CZUL Chief EuroScope Beta Tester / Board of Designers GVCCS Beta Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie Alston 812154 Posted April 14, 2007 at 11:48 PM Posted April 14, 2007 at 11:48 PM Hi Andreas,Why don't you just try YUL J484 YVO ? Because it's not a valid route, the exit point is v352 sasid Regards Why would 'YUL V352 SASID' be valid, but not ' YUL J484 SASID' ?? Regards. Ernie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Park 822521 Posted April 24, 2007 at 07:36 PM Posted April 24, 2007 at 07:36 PM Not quite sure where vRoute is getting the info to verify the route. This is a route tha AA576 (Airborne as I type) filed from KSTL to KLGA (From Flightware.com): GATWY4.ROD J29 DJB DJB32 J146 ETG.MIP3 and these are the error's that return when I click "Verify Route": ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint GATWY ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint DJB32 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint J146 GATWY4 is a valid DP from KSTL. Why does it recognize MIP3? DJB32 is a valid waypoint that intersect's with J146 and J29. Steve Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 24, 2007 at 08:35 PM Posted April 24, 2007 at 08:35 PM You need to look from the start, a bad start can confuse the scanner and make it run in the wrong direction. Is GATWY a valid intersection at the end of GATWY4? I can't find it in the database. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Park 822521 Posted April 24, 2007 at 09:19 PM Posted April 24, 2007 at 09:19 PM Gateway 4 is a departure proceedure, not an intersection or waypoint. It is abbreviated GATWY4 (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0704/00360GATEWAY.PDF) and there are no intersections or waypoint's in the proceedure named GATWY. Just like MIP3 is an arrivial proceedure, however you will not find an intersection or VOR labeled MIP3 anywhere. The Gateway Four departure includes 6 waypoint's and is just an abbreviated way of filing a standard departure. I can leave out the DP's if the scanner does not recognize them, it will just make the route extreamly long. Also, did you find out why it did not recogize DJB32, which is a valid intersection on J29, a valid airway and J146, also a valid airway. This is going to be a great feature when it get's up to speed. It has some serious shortcoming right now. I tried to book a flight from KDFW to KSFO and would you believe there were NO route's between KDFW and California? I submitted a new one, but again had to leave out the DP and STAR as vRoute did not recognize them. Steve Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ogden 985378 Posted April 25, 2007 at 01:16 AM Posted April 25, 2007 at 01:16 AM Gateway 4 is a departure proceedure, not an intersection or waypoint. It is abbreviated GATWY4 (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0704/00360GATEWAY.PDF) and there are no intersections or waypoint's in the proceedure named GATWY. Just like MIP3 is an arrivial proceedure, however you will not find an intersection or VOR labeled MIP3 anywhere. The Gateway Four departure includes 6 waypoint's and is just an abbreviated way of filing a standard departure. I can leave out the DP's if the scanner does not recognize them, it will just make the route extreamly long. Also, did you find out why it did not recogize DJB32, which is a valid intersection on J29, a valid airway and J146, also a valid airway. This is going to be a great feature when it get's up to speed. It has some serious shortcoming right now. I tried to book a flight from KDFW to KSFO and would you believe there were NO route's between KDFW and California? I submitted a new one, but again had to leave out the DP and STAR as vRoute did not recognize them. Steve Park Are you sure about MIP3? I'm pretty sure thats the Milton VOR. I agree that something should be done to accommodate SIDs and STARs that are not [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with a fix. If you want the route database to be "up to date" I'm glad to see you take the first step in getting it there. While I think its a great idea for controllers to get on and post routes for their airports, Michal clearly envisions a database where everyone contributes. Again, glad to see you've started helping with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Elchitz 810151 Posted April 25, 2007 at 02:08 AM Posted April 25, 2007 at 02:08 AM Also, did you find out why it did not recogize DJB32, which is a valid intersection on J29, a valid airway and J146, also a valid airway While I don't know Michal's route parsing works, I do have a good understanding of how finicky they can be. So, although Michal can certainly answer himself, I'm sure this is on the right track: ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint DJB32 ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint J146 DJB32 is a valid waypoint, but it isn't a valid waypoint for J29 or J146. As a result of DJB32 not being part of J146, the system can't determine where the "starting point" of J146 is, and thus would probably skip the entire thing and end up sending you direct from DJB or DJB32 to ETG. Further, some simple inspection would uncover the fact that if DJB32 were a valid waypoint on both J29 and J146, then the route would actually be something more like ROD J29 DJB32 J146 ETG as opposed to using DJB as an exit point for J29 and then DJB32 as an entry point for J146. Ian Elchitz Just a guy without any fancy titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Park 822521 Posted April 25, 2007 at 02:46 AM Posted April 25, 2007 at 02:46 AM Thanks Ian, Must just be a coincidence the DJB32 is located exactly where J29 crosses J146.....go figure. Acutally the flight plan was GATWY4.ROD J29 J146 ETG.MIP3. Since J29 only crosses J146 at one location, the FAA accept it as a vailid IFR flight plan for a commerical airline. Since the program has to see a start and end of airway's, I added the point where they cross. Robert, I know for a fact that the MIP3 (Milton Three) STAR has a MIP vor, however as I stated and as picky as the program seems to be in parsing the route's, there is NOT a MIP3 vor, waypoint or anything else with that name other that the STAR abbrevation. But vRoute seem's to recognize it as a valid point or set of point's that it is, however, it does not recognize GATWY4, because it does not contain a GATWY waypoint.... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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