Tony Evans Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:43 PM Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:43 PM Online right now can be seen a Louis Lopez at LXGB but it is showing up not as Gibraltar but under Spain also stating that it is under LECM Madrid Center jurisdiction! I'm sure you know as well as I do ( ) that Gibraltar does have its own airspace coverage as its added in as a nation...it just never gets used. I noticed this the other day when I flew from LXGB as well but thought as I was flying into Spain that it could be for that reason. Just doing my best to help Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James O Grady 904153 Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:50 PM Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:50 PM Sorry for the ignorance, but I thought Gibraltar fell under the Madrid FIR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:50 PM Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:50 PM Hi Tony, Does Gibraltar have it's own FIR or is it an airspace within LECM? Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Evans Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:54 PM Author Posted April 19, 2007 at 05:54 PM Hi Tony, Does Gibraltar have it's own FIR or is it an airspace within LECM? Michal it doesn't have an FIR of its own no but the airspace it does, its very limited I guess it would be considered as within LECM as such but it falls under Gibraltar airspace not Madrid http://virtualskies.net/cvars/download/LXGB.pdf the charts here show the limited airspace Seamus there is one reason mainly why Gibraltar has its own airspace and its cos of ther mil ops, the RAF and MoD ownership of the runway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James O Grady 904153 Posted April 19, 2007 at 06:12 PM Posted April 19, 2007 at 06:12 PM Seamus there is one reason mainly why Gibraltar has its own airspace and its cos of ther mil ops, the RAF and MoD ownership of the runway Oh I knew that, but what exactly is the type of airspace at Gibraltar? Despite the limited airspace in Gibraltar, is it considered that the airport still falls under the Madrid FIR or is that airspace considered separate from Madrid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Evans Posted April 19, 2007 at 06:18 PM Author Posted April 19, 2007 at 06:18 PM Seamus there is one reason mainly why Gibraltar has its own airspace and its cos of ther mil ops, the RAF and MoD ownership of the runway Oh I knew that, but what exactly is the type of airspace at Gibraltar? Despite the limited airspace in Gibraltar, is it considered that the airport still falls under the Madrid FIR or is that airspace considered separate from Madrid? according to a friend who's Dad is a controller at Gib its separate from Madrid but as Madrid Center extends to waypoint Bravo/Spanish exclave Ceuta its commonly seen as under Madrid FIR....all control for Gib is handled 50nm for LXGB after Malaga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 19, 2007 at 07:05 PM Posted April 19, 2007 at 07:05 PM If there's no separate FIR for Gibraltar, then the only option I can currently think of is to remove Gibraltar from countries list, just like a separate entry for Luxembourg was removed in the past for the same reason. MIchal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Evans Posted April 19, 2007 at 08:29 PM Author Posted April 19, 2007 at 08:29 PM If there's no separate FIR for Gibraltar, then the only option I can currently think of is to remove Gibraltar from countries list, just like a separate entry for Luxembourg was removed in the past for the same reason. MIchal yeh thats what i was thinking...it'll be sad to see it go but it doesn't really do much...unless we get some ATC over there and that at the minute is well something no-one has ever done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 20, 2007 at 04:39 AM Posted April 20, 2007 at 04:39 AM OK, will be changed in next release together with the "All Pilots" stuff. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Evans Posted April 24, 2007 at 09:30 AM Author Posted April 24, 2007 at 09:30 AM things changed Michal...maybe there's a way to fix the issue and work with LECM FIR http://www.vatsim-uk.org/regions/military/downloads/Gibraltar%20Letter%20of%20Agreement%20v1%202.pdf I can understand it may take some work or even may not be possible but it would be really cool if it can Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 24, 2007 at 09:46 AM Posted April 24, 2007 at 09:46 AM That's a long and detailed docomeent. What exactly would you like to see? Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Casey Posted April 24, 2007 at 11:59 AM Posted April 24, 2007 at 11:59 AM it doesn't really do much...unless we get some ATC over there and that at the minute is well something no-one has ever done That's not strictly true, apart from tonight's event it has certainly been manned in the past by British controllers. We had a very successful fly-in there sometime last year and I have seen it manned occasionally before that. Manned or not it does certainly get traffic, I've flown in and out of there on a regular basis myself as have a number of other Brit pilots. Bill Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Evans Posted April 26, 2007 at 07:12 AM Author Posted April 26, 2007 at 07:12 AM That's a long and detailed docomeent. What exactly would you like to see? Michal maybe we could make Gib work somehow with the airspace and knowledge of the handoff areas... Thanks Bill, i'm a little less informed of that, I know about the flying part I see a tonne of them daily but from what i understood was that no-one could control gib until this agreement was made...well at least we got it and should see regular manning...Mr Chris Norman seems to like doing it frequently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 26, 2007 at 08:14 AM Posted April 26, 2007 at 08:14 AM Tony, first see in detail how it works, and then tell me what you'd like changed. I cannot accept "maybe we could make it show somehow" as an answer Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Pflug 899571 Posted April 27, 2007 at 08:49 AM Posted April 27, 2007 at 08:49 AM If there's no separate FIR for Gibraltar, then the only option I can currently think of is to remove Gibraltar from countries list, just like a separate entry for Luxembourg was removed in the past for the same reason. MIchal Yeah, right... "ignore the small countries" Cheers, Norbert >>>>>> http://www.fly737.com <<<<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michal Rok Posted April 27, 2007 at 05:27 PM Posted April 27, 2007 at 05:27 PM When I was setting up SATCO in Poland in 1997, we were considered "small country" in terms of the number of users. Now we have 700 pilots and 50 active controllers. So I know what it's like to be a small country and my statements are driven by nothing but facts. Michal vroute.net founder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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