Oceanic Controlling

[David Saunders 818672]

quick question,

 

Can I ask why an S3 was being mentored on Gander, when i thought this was a C1 position minimum, IE: you had to be a C1 to be mentored on this position

[Norman Blackburn]

Surely an email to your Division would be much better rather than raising this in public?

 

Whilst I know the Shanwick position is restricted to C1 I don't know if Canada holds the same requirement on their side of the pond. Other Oceanic positions around the globe are only subject to S3.

[Matthew Horan 901577]

David,

 

The student in question is rather well-versed in Oceanic procedures, and an exception was made to the rule (From what I've been told).

 

The standard is still C1, however - this was a rare case.

[Brandon Van Brunt 939678]

With talking to the FIR Chief of Gander an agreement was made that the requirements for Gander Oceanic lowered to S3. This will not change quality of service of Gander Oceanic, Requirements to be certified have not changed, and S3's require the same skill as the C1's did. I hope this answered the question

[David Saunders 818672]

Norman,

 

The reason i posted here was exactly for the response that i got, to explain not only to me but to other people why this happened, there are to many closed doors responses to basic questions that can enlighten others.

 

Matthew,

 

Rules are there for reasons and making exceptions because somebody knows procerdures is a not good enough reason to break it. I am not questioning the ability of the controller but the reason why this is allowed to happen.

 

 

Brandon,

 

If Gander has been lowered to S3, then I will expect alot of UK controllers to ask for Shanwick to be lowered to S3 or Gander will be unable to provide a service for Shanwick traffic due to his rating. As fos S3's requiring the same skills as a C1 then the obvious answer would be then take the C1 exam.

 

I am just asking basics questions that S3's will be asking who want to control oceanic, but cant because of the restrictions.

[Brandon Van Brunt 939678]

David,

How Shanwick wishes to run their airspace is up to them. Most controllers are still C1's, but if S3's are wanting to be trained and are willing to put in the commitment to learning the material that is fine. In the end we have to remember this is still a hobby and it is about having fun.

[David Saunders 818672]

so what your saying is, if you want to control a position, never mind about the rating you can ask to control it because you want to and are willing to learn the docomeentation.

 

Like I said Iam not doubting your ability to control , I was asking the question about the Position having a specific Rating, BUT an exception was made to the rule to allow a S3 to control a C1 position. This has a roleon effect if Gander makes the position a S3 post rather than a C1 post. This would mean Shanwick will have to rethink its rating for that position or Gander will have to handoff the traffic at 30W to unicom, do you see my point here.

 

I am trying clarify this post to get an official point of wheather Oceanic (Gander / Shawick) is a S3 or C1, this would be of alot of interest to S3 controllers in the UK. I will be asking UK staff to clarify what they intend to do and the responsibilitys of the positions.

[Paul Heaney 879309]

David Shanwick and Gander are not connected, they are run independently of each other. Although I see exactly what you are saying.

 

If it's a C1 Position, then it should be a C1 Position. If that S3 is a whiz at Oceanic procedures, then he SHOULD be a C1 and needs to write the test and do the OTS, he'll no doubt p[Mod - Happy Thoughts], with flying colours.

 

I never did understand exceptions to the rule. But that's up to the people that make the decisions. I wanted a C1 Rating, so I worked for and got it. Now I'm happy to sit here a a C1, and if there's a Job I want to apply for that requires C3 or higher, then I guess I'm SOL. No need to make exceptions. I'd better get my butt in gear and work for that C3.

[Brandon Van Brunt 939678]

Paul basically hit the issue straight on. Remember Gander is run by visitors only, so we have no ability to promote to C1, that said if i have a controller who is a whiz at controlling Oceanic, he should be allowed to control regardless of rating. Its about the quality of service not what their rank is, if they can provide the same service as a C1 why should they not be able to control. Remember these are S3's, many have been around for a long time, its not like we are putting fresh students on and saying good luck!

[Matthew Horan 901577]

Remember Gander is run by visitors only

 

Wrong.

 

I'm a member of Gander FIR, as my home region is combined (Moncton, Gander domestic, Gander oceanic)

 

There are many guests on the roster; but it is NOT a visitor-only FIR.

[Brandon Van Brunt 939678]

Ok let me rephrase that, Gander Oceanic is a different section of Gander that is run by only anyone who is interested, Anyone can join Gander Oceanic and is not part of any FIR's Training

[Norman Guffick 935816]

9. Provision of ATC Services: A Regional Director shall ensure that his or her division puts into place policies and staff which result in the widest possible ATC coverage for the pilots of VATSIM. In addition, a Regional Director shall ensure that no policy is put into place which either adversely affects the overall staffing of the airspace delegated to them or impedes the growth of facilities in his or her region.

 

Sometimes, we have to be inventive with respect to the provision of services, but always following the VATSIM Codes of Conduct and Regulation

 

 

Norm

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

My 2 cents:

a. No rule making can forsee all circomestances.

b. Rulemakers can change rules or allow for exceptions within their authority.

[Jeremy Skerry 910411]

I am not questionning the S3 controller who is currently working gander. They have always made it a C1 position for the reason that controllers with a C1 would usually have worked an en route environnement before. If we want to let S3's control oceanic, that is fine, but they should have some experience with en route. You could have an S3 from FIR1 for example who can control en route and have another S3 from FIR2 who can only control up to TWR.

[Joshua Greenway 937147]

I am not questionning the S3 controller who is currently working gander. They have always made it a C1 position for the reason that controllers with a C1 would usually have worked an en route environnement before. If we want to let S3's control oceanic, that is fine, but they should have some experience with en route. You could have an S3 from FIR1 for example who can control en route and have another S3 from FIR2 who can only control up to TWR.

 

What you forget, Mr. Skerry, is that oceanic controlling is procedural, which is nothing like a radar environment, so any enroute experience isn't going to aid the controller in any great deal.