Runway incursion or not?

[Brad Littlejohn]

I was thinking about this as I did a flight last night from KSMF-KOKC, and wondered what the legality of this is

 

If the taxiway continues THROUGH a given runway, and a plane is is holding short of the runway (as asked by ATC), and another plane is on final for that runway, would that be a runway incursion?

 

I'll use KOKC as an example. According to the A/FD (http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0706/00301AD.PDF) and Airnav, there are 3 parallel runways (17L/35R, 17R/35L, and 18/36). 18/36 is what I'm looking at, with Taxiway B. All deals/bad controlling aside, if Cessna A is on a 4 mile final for 36, while Cessna B is holding short of 36 on B and unable to depart prior to Cessna A's arrival Cessna A would have to clear Cessna B to land on the runway. As Cessna B is not on nor has taken the runway, would this be an incursion?

 

BTW, I already know that the obvious solution is a go-around and re-enter the pattern, but I was wondering the legality of being on a taxiway that is inline with the active runway.

 

BL.

[Travis Faudree 821145]

If you take a look at the Google satellite image of the OKC airport, you can make out a hold short line about 800 feet south of the runway threshold on taxiway B, down near the run-up area/comp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] rose. I'd imagine there is some sort of regulation in the airport design section of the FARs that specifies how far back from the threshold the hold short line needs to be in the case of an inline taxiway. As long as the aircraft has not crossed the hold short line without ATC authorization, no runway incursion as occurred.

[David Klain 874106]

That's correct. The hold short line defines the runway environent. You cannot have ANY part of the aircraft (not even an inch of the nose) cross that line without permission or it is a runway incursion. I have frequently seen pictures of MSFS posted in these forums or otherwise that say the pilot is holding short when some portion of the plane is (incorrectly) across the line.

 

The runway environment is defined as all the areas inside the holde short lines on all taxiways...not just the actual runway itself. As soon as a part of the plane crosses the line, you are considered to be "on the runway"...by the same token, the plane is not "clear of the runway" until the entire plane is across the line when exiting the runway.

 

Hope this helps,

Dave

[Gary Frothingham 811699]

At Honolulu Intl - A CRJ was taking off from Rwy 8L, a C-130 just landed on 4R - C-130 missed a left turn to taxiway B and kept rolling down 4R towards the runways intersect.

"The pilot crossed the "hold bars" — the lines on the taxiway — and was only 110 feet from the runway edge,.."

 

 

 

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