Error: Invalid line name in sector BORDER

[Lluis del Cerro 810821]

Hi,

 

I am receiving these error messages:

 

"Invalid line name in sector BORDER: 7E/7E_2N in line 165"

"Invalid line name in sector BORDER: 2N/2N_FB in line 169"

 

The end part of my *.ese file is:

 

SECTOR:7E:0:24500;OK

OWNER:7E:2N

BORDER:7E_2N:7E_FM

 

SECTOR:2N:0:66000;OK

OWNER:2N:EW

BORDER:2N_FB:2N_FM:2N_0A:2N_4C

 

I understand what the error message says but do not know where the problem is. In the SECTORLINE subsection the BORDER 7E_2N is defined although I have not yet defined the 2N_FB. However, I have logged in as 2N and another ATC as 7E but without FB active.

 

Someone can give me some light on this?

 

Thanks,

 

Lluís

[Sami Ylismaki 878340]

With defining do you mean the DISPLAY: lines or the whole sectorline? If it doesn't exist then that error is rather self explainable for the other sector.

 

Eitherway, I'd need to see the sectorlines to be able to say something for sure.

[Lluis del Cerro 810821]

Hello,

 

This is the whole [AIRSPACE] section as I have it now to test if I succed or not:

 

SECTORLINE:7E_2N;OK

DISPLAY:7E:7E:2N:2A:3L:EW

COORD:N040.30.00:E004.40.00

COORD:N040.30.00:E003.50.36

COORD:N040.30.00:E003.33.39

COORD:N040.30.00:E002.21.30

COORD:N039.47.08:E001.30.11

COORD:N039.04.30:E000.40.30

COORD:N038.36.30:E000.40.30

COORD:N038.36.30:E001.07.00

COORD:N038.26.00:E001.28.00

COORD:N039.43.00:E004.40.00

 

SECTORLINE:7E_FM;OK

DISPLAY:7E:7E:FM:EW

COORD:N040.30.00:E004.40.00

COORD:N039.43.00:E004.40.00

 

SECTORLINE:2N_0A;OK

DISPLAY:2N:2N:0A:EW

COORD:N039.00.00.000:E004.40.00.200

COORD:N038.19.59.998:E003.45.00.000

COORD:N038.19.59.998:E003.45.00.000

COORD:N038.15.37.999:E003.32.59.999

COORD:N038.15.37.999:E003.32.59.999

COORD:N037.54.11.599:E002.35.20.999

COORD:N037.54.11.599:E002.35.20.999

COORD:N036.15.00.000:W001.30.00.000

COORD:N036.15.00.000:W001.30.00.000

COORD:N035.49.59.998:W002.06.00.997

 

SECTORLINE:7E_2N;OK

DISPLAY:7E:7E:2N:2A:3L:EW

COORD:N040.30.00:E004.40.00

COORD:N040.30.00:E003.50.36

COORD:N040.30.00:E003.33.39

COORD:N040.30.00:E002.21.30

COORD:N039.47.08:E001.30.11

COORD:N039.04.30:E000.40.30

COORD:N038.36.30:E000.40.30

COORD:N038.36.30:E001.07.00

COORD:N038.26.00:E001.28.00

COORD:N039.43.00:E004.40.00

 

SECTORLINE:7E_FM;OK

DISPLAY:7E:7E:FM:EW

COORD:N040.30.00:E004.40.00

COORD:N039.43.00:E004.40.00

 

SECTORLINE:2N_0A;OK

DISPLAY:2N:2N:0A:EW

COORD:N039.00.00.000:E004.40.00.200

COORD:N038.19.59.998:E003.45.00.000

COORD:N038.19.59.998:E003.45.00.000

COORD:N038.15.37.999:E003.32.59.999

COORD:N038.15.37.999:E003.32.59.999

COORD:N037.54.11.599:E002.35.20.999

COORD:N037.54.11.599:E002.35.20.999

COORD:N036.15.00.000:W001.30.00.000

COORD:N036.15.00.000:W001.30.00.000

COORD:N035.49.59.998:W002.06.00.997

 

SECTOR:7E:0:24500;OK

OWNER:7E:2N

BORDER:7E_2N:7E_FM

 

SECTOR:2N:0:66000

OWNER:2N:EW

BORDER:2N_FB:2N_FM:2N_0A:2N_4C

 

Any comment and suggestion will be very welcome. Thx,

 

Lluís

[Sami Ylismaki 878340]

The most likely problem is that you have three cases of duplicate sectorlines (pasted twice?).

The known problem is that you haven't completed the sectorlines for 2N.

 

Also I'm not sure whether DISPLAY: works with more than 3 conditions. Someone with more knowledge should tell me .

[Lluis del Cerro 810821]

Hi,

 

At least one of the problems is that you haven't defined all the sectorlines for 2N.

Another problem is that you have two sectorlines with similar name (2N_OA), apparently duplicates.

 

Also I'm not sure whether DISPLAY: works with more than 3 conditions. Multiple cases of DISPLAY: within a sectorline do work.

 

Thank you for the information. I'll try to work on the SECTORLINE for 2N. However it is quite difficult as I am using the VATEUD sector for IBERIA. The problem is that the *.sct files use a format in such a way that there's a segment in each line, not always sequencial. I have no tools, so I am doing everything by hand and it is quite complicated as have no means to place the co-ordinate lines in a sequential ordering. The ES system is much better as each line is a point and the next line is the next point of the segment.

 

Concerning the number of conditions in the DISPLAY, I did it in that way because nothing is said in the manual regarding limitations. I will check that because now I realise that the SECTORLINE should appear depending on the OWNER line of the SECTOR subsection. Again, I think we need a manual in deeper detail for this *.ese files.

 

Sincerely, I am tired of working on this. I have spent my whole week of holidays trying to prepare a simple *.ese file to display the most simple case in our airspace without any visible result.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Lluís

[Sami Ylismaki 878340]

The problem is that the *.sct files use a format in such a way that there's a segment in each line, not always sequencial. I have no tools, so I am doing everything by hand and it is quite complicated as have no means to place the co-ordinate lines in a sequential ordering. The ES system is much better as each line is a point and the next line is the next point of the segment.

 

I've created some reformat tools for myself just for these cases when the lines are in random order. However the tools are mostly hastily built and hardly good for public use.

 

This is a tool which I used to clear up the different ARTCC coordinates from .sct to .ese format: http://fishu.kapsi.fi/artccfix.php

All the coordinates of a single sector (under same name) in any of the ARTCC cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es should be pasted into it, but no more nor less. Unfortunately it will only work if the coordinates in every line are in same order.

 

The tool memorizes the second set of latitude/longitude of a row and attempts to find a comparable set from all the given rows from the first latitude/longitude. Then rinse & repeat.

 

For example (each letter represents a latitude and longitude and two letters forms a single line):

AB

CD

DE

BC

 

This creates a line ABCDE, as per the .sct format.

 

However, if the format is something along this line, it will not work:

AB

CB

CD

DE

 

This also creates the line, but the tool doesn't undestand for it and simply pastes the same latlon onwards from the first error.

 

Although it wouldn't be that much work to fix the tool to try compare a set of latitude/longitude to first and second set of latlon on each row. It'd only quadruple the lines in the code.

[Gergely Csernak]

Hi all,

 

First I found that there is no way to use the ; character to start a comment in the ESE file. I recorded it as a bug. But if you simply delete them then it will work (of course only after you define the 2N_FB sectorline).

 

DISPLAY:7E:7E:2N:2A:3L:EW - this line has no real meaning. Please read again the definition. DISPLAY should have exactly three sectors. The first will be tested if you are controlling or not. The last two will be tested if have different owner or not. If you are controlling the first sector and the second and third sector have owner and they are different then the sectorline is displayed. One sectorline may have several DISPLAY lines to describe all situations when you would like to see it.

 

And another tip to define the coordinates of the sectorlines. I suggest you to be a little bit lazy. It is not necessary to define the coordinates precisely to the same position where they are in the sectorfile. They are used to test if an AC will ever enter there or not. So it could be far more generalized. It also needs less computing resource to test if a point is inside a polygon if the polygon has less point.

 

Sometimes to digitize the line is easier than searching for it in the SCT file. A good way to digitize is the use of .destance command. If you start it and click on the screen the coordinates are copied to the command line. You can cut/paste it to the ESE file and click to the next point. Just change the , separator to :

[Earl Miller]

Gergely are you talking about "ALL" the ( ; ) semi colons in the .ESE file or just in the data after the [freetext], [airspace]

and sectorlines, etc?

Earl-SLC

[Gergely Csernak]

Earl,

 

In this version EuroScope detects the ';' chars and treats it as comment only if the ';' is at the first position of the line. So

 

;

; Budapest Facilities

;

 

are comment lines, but

 

SECTORLINE:7E_2N;OK

 

defines a sectorline with the name "7E_2N;OK".

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

Hello,

I can't get an error to go away: I have the Cyprus LCCC airspace borders defined, but an error is issued about a (LCCC_OSTT) line name. This error changes sometimes (flags another borderline) when the bordering LGGG south sector is present in the file or commented out for testing. Additionally, the border flagged as error has changed without any file modifications. Ideas please, thanks

 

[AIRSPACE]

;

SECTORLINE:LCCC_LGGGS

COORD:N036.04.56.380:E029.59.58.351

COORD:N033.29.37.723:E030.00.19.346

;

SECTORLINE:LCCC_LTAA

COORD:N036.04.56.380:E029.59.58.351

COORD:N035.54.56.440:E035.39.58.849

;

SECTORLINE:LCCC_OSTT

COORD:N035.54.56.440:E035.39.58.849

COORD:N035.33.54.070:E035.29.10.402

COORD:N035.02.27.652:E035.41.52.855

COORD:N034.38.20.999:E035.42.29.998

;

SECTORLINE:LCCC_OLBB

COORD:N034.38.20.999:E035.42.29.998

COORD:N034.35.56.175:E035.38.32.621

COORD:N034.29.00.178:E034.59.49.287

COORD:N033.52.22.664:E034.33.26.096

COORD:N033.26.22.657:E034.39.30.958

COORD:N033.05.52.611:E034.56.06.859

;

SECTORLINE:LCCC_LLLL

COORD:N031.49.42.892:E034.00.08.093

COORD:N031.55.45.848:E033.57.41.366

COORD:N032.12.05.222:E033.58.42.632

COORD:N032.16.01.212:E034.00.04.608

COORD:N032.19.50.245:E034.01.50.529

COORD:N032.23.30.579:E034.03.59.588

COORD:N032.27.00.536:E034.06.30.804

COORD:N032.30.18.520:E034.09.23.025

COORD:N032.33.23.023:E034.12.34.941

COORD:N032.36.12.641:E034.16.05.091

COORD:N032.38.46.083:E034.19.51.876

COORD:N032.41.02.181:E034.23.53.569

COORD:N032.42.59.900:E034.28.08.332

COORD:N032.44.54.251:E034.33.05.191

COORD:N033.05.46.856:E034.35.12.272

COORD:N033.05.52.611:E034.56.06.859

;

SECTORLINE:LCCC_HECC

COORD:N033.29.37.723:E030.00.19.346

COORD:N031.49.42.892:E034.00.08.093

;

SECTOR:LCCC:24500:60000

OWNER:NIC:ES

BORDER:LCCC_LGGGS:LCCC_LTAA:LCCC_OSTT:LCCC_OLBB:LCCC_LLLL:LCCC_HECC

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

Hello,

I can't get an error to go away: I have the Cyprus LCCC airspace borders defined, but an error is issued about a (LCCC_OSTT) line name. This error changes sometimes (flags another borderline) when the bordering LGGG south sector is present in the file or commented out for testing. Additionally, the border flagged as error has changed without any file modifications. Ideas please, thanks

 

I reported it after a two day attempt to pin it down, it had happened before.

One hour following this report, it went away.

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

1. Did you try just to reinstall ES for test.

 

2. Make sure the end point of the SECTORLINE is common with the start point of the next SECTORLINE

-

SECTORLINE:LCCC_LGGGS

COORD:N036.04.56.380:E029.59.58.351

COORD:N033.29.37.723:E030.00.19.346

;

SECTORLINE:LCCC_LTAA

COORD:N036.04.56.380:E029.59.58.351

COORD:N035.54.56.440:E035.39.58.849

 

******

 

SECTORLINE:LCCC_HECC

COORD:N033.29.37.723:E030.00.19.346

COORD:N031.49.42.892:E034.00.08.093

swap the COORD:N036.04.56.380:E029.59.58.351 and COORD:N033.29.37.723:E030.00.19.346, and once more at the end: COORD:N033.29.37.723:E030.00.19.346 with COORD:N031.49.42.892:E034.00.08.093

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

Blagodaria Todor!

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

Molia

Did it work?

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

The previous one went away without anything, and the new one doesn't.

Molia

Did it work?

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

While continuing the development of .ese files, errors without apparent reason appear with newly defined sectors. Both discontinuous border line and border line name errors. This behavior is regardless of order of points in borderlines. New install doesn't solve this.

Am I the only one encountering the issue?

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

Opher can you send me the .ese file to the email in my profile.

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

Thanks Todor,

sent to the vacc staff address (your profile contains no email that I could find).

 

Opher can you send me the .ese file to the email in my profile.

[Matey Hristov 970289]

For example (each letter represents a latitude and longitude and two letters forms a single line):

AB

CD

DE

BC

 

This creates a line ABCDE, as per the .sct format.

 

Hi Sami, I used your tool but the result is rather strange, for some reason it is not working properly. I sent you a private message with an example, mybe I am doing something wrong..

Best regards

Matey

[Nikita Kapko 1015297]

Hi people!

 

I want to say or ask... I dont know what ist wiil be

 

First of all: why ES can read coordinats of points (fix, NDB, VOR) in sct file but cant in ese? It will be useful in creation couse I dont must copy coordinates from sct to ese. If it needed - its will be simple to copy info about points from sct to ese.

 

Second. Its connection between sector lines in the sectors description. And direction of this lines. Some times I cant use same line (becouse its break connection between lines) and I must invert it backward. For example when you have

=========================== |--------|--------|

=========================== | * 1 * | * 2 * |

=========================== |--------|--------|

=========================== | **** 3 ****|

=========================== |-----------------|

 

If line between 1 and 2 goes from up to down, then border of sector 1 will be clockwise and for sector 2 - anticlockwise. So line between 1 and 3 goes from right to left and line between 2 and 3 from left to right. And I CANT use this lines (1\2 and 2\3) for upper border of the sector 3 becouse they dont connected and begin in same point. I must invert one of line and create reverse new line.

Its not good. Maybe some where I dont right. If my point of view is correct, maybe in next version of ES direction of line in ese will be not important.

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

1. ES can read coordinates from ESE, it reads the free text for one, and it is defined by coordinates .

2. You don't need a one direction "circle" to define a sector. All you need is a closing point, so the polygon can be closed. You can use 1/2 and 2/3 for border of 3. I have done it and it is working nicely ( my sector is like yours, but the 3 i on the right)

[Nikita Kapko 1015297]

Helou Todor!

1. So I can use same name of points in ESE file without its determination there? (ES will get this coordinates from SCT file?) Or I must crete free text section with this points?

2. Thanks Todor! Its work. ES more cleaver that I can hope

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

About the 1, what do you want to do exactly?

[Gergely Csernak]

Niko,

 

We found that named points are so rare that you can not use them in the place of the coordinates in the sectorlines. The lines and borders in the SCT file are not exact enough to use them to build polygons from them.

[Nikita Kapko 1015297]

Thanks Gergely! Thanks Todor!

 

I think FIRs adjacent lines usually, if this FIRs belong to the same country and CTR-APP sectolines, have only between-points lines and its will be more easy to create this sectorlines with using points names but not coordinates. But I agree with you, Gergely, that this sitation rarely occur between intercountry FIRs lines.

 

If this feature are complex in realizing it's not a problem. But if it can be solved simply it will be great as for me. So this is you business and if you dont want to make this feature its will be okey. Anyway ES is the best and most real radar client in the world! And thanks for you, dear Creator and Tester!