When are speed restrictions implicitly lifted for inbound?

[Anthony Atkielski 985811]

Is there anything that lifts speed restrictions for an inbound aircraft in the U.K., or do restrictions apply until ATC says otherwise?

 

For example, if I'm told to intercept the localizer, does this imply that my speed restriction goes away upon interception? What about instructions to "descend via the glide slope," or a landing clearance?

 

In the U.S., an approach clearance implicitly cancels any ATC-imposed speed restriction, but I don't get a lot of speed restrictions at the airports where I usually fly in the U.S., so the issue doesn't normally arise. Apparently one does not get an explicit approach clearance in the U.K. (at least not with the "cleared for the xxx approach" phraseology), so I'm not sure what happens to speed restrictions.

[Ruth McTighe 824054]

Speed restrictions in the UK apply until they are explictily cancelled. If you are really lucky you may get told "no ATC speed restriction" and then you can do what speed you like (subject to the 250 knots below FL100 rule). You will normally be given 180 knots for a base leg and intercept, and 160 knots on the glide slope, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming you have an aircraft that can reach those speeds. The speed is nomrally given to 4 dme, after which it's up to you. (at EGLC it's 160 to 6dme as the glide slope is much steeper). If there's no other traffic to worry about spacing with I will cancel the speed restriction once you are established.

 

Airspace in the London TMA is very tight, so we need you to keep to the speeds both for spacing and to stop you overshooting on tight turns (the approach to EGSS runway 05 is a good example).

 

Ruth

[Francis Shepherd 980238]

At risk of repeating anything Ruth said on this... or disagreeing with a more experienced controller...

 

Speed restrictions are usually applied during approach... when I (or any other radar controller) says,

Descend with the ILS, no speed restriction

we don't quite mean that, we probably should say,

no further speed restriction.

Maximum speed on most ILS approaches in the UK is 180 knots IAS. I would [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume this still stands despite the wording of the instruction. Common sense dictates as well you don't go hurtling down the ILS at 250-odd knots. The implication is you can slow to final approach speed.

 

I know what Ruth means about the ILS rwy 05 at Stansted (see sig).

[Wycliffe Barrett]

Anthony

 

At EGFF as with many other airporst in the UK you will be slowed to 180knots, then when asked to "descend on the ILS" it is implicit that the speed restriction of 180 is lifted.

 

I think it is fair to say that not many pilots would like to land their aircraft at 180 or higher.

 

My mentor reminded me thatthe use of the phrase "maintain best minimum speed" is not very helpful, and that it is better to simply tell a pilot what you want him to do.

 

Strangely enough whilst flying last night, a controller said that very thing to me. I requested at what speed would he like me to fly, whihc caused him a little consternation but finaly he plumped for 180.

 

So I guess the moral of the tale is even when you expect to hear something always expect another possibility as local arrangements can be different.

 

It is not uncommon in Scotland for instance to be given the instruction "to taxi to stand of own choice" very peculiar.

 

Ho Hum

[Michael Benson]

Maximum speed on most ILS approaches in the UK is 180 knots IAS. I would [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume this still stands despite the wording of the instruction. Common sense dictates as well you don't go hurtling down the ILS at 250-odd knots.

 

There is no maximum speed on the ILS within the UK. The only limiting speed is 250kts below FL100 within CAS. It's not unusual within the UK for airliners to fly at 230kts+ down the ILS.

 

My mentor reminded me thatthe use of the phrase "maintain best minimum speed" is not very helpful, and that it is better to simply tell a pilot what you want him to do.

 

I would disagree with your mentor.

 

"Reduce to minimum clean speed" or "Reduce to minimum approach speed" are perfectly acceptable instructions. It is for the pilot to know the clean and configured speeds for their aircraft at it's current particular weight/situation, not the controller.

 

To answer the origional question.

 

Maintain the speed [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned until you are given a new speed of receive the instruction "no atc speed restrictions". If you find you are coming in a bit hot ask the controller if you may reduce speed.

[Ivan Kovacevic 920456]

"Reduce to minimum clean speed" or "Reduce to minimum approach speed" are perfectly acceptable instructions. It is for the pilot to know the clean and configured speeds for their aircraft at it's current particular weight/situation, not the controller.

 

Only if the pilot knows what those two speeds are...

[Wycliffe Barrett]

"Reduce to minimum clean speed" or "Reduce to minimum approach speed" are perfectly acceptable instructions. It is for the pilot to know the clean and configured speeds for their aircraft at it's current particular weight/situation, not the controller.

 

Only if the pilot knows what those two speeds are...

 

time to check Cap493 me thinks.

[Wycliffe Barrett]

Ok

 

There are four references in Cap493 to minimum speed but none of which are related to minimum speed on approach.

 

Turning to CAP413 there are zero references to minimum speed and on doing a scan of Approach phraseology I can see no indication to a phrase having minimum in it.

 

All that I am seeing is "no speed restriction"

 

Perhaps Benny or BST could post a reference.

 

Cheerio

[Michael Benson]

With pleasure

 

ICAO sets out standard international phraseology for communications between air traffic services and pilots in several docomeents including Annex 10 Volume 2 (Communications Procedures) to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and ICAO PANS-ATM (Procedures for Air Navigation Services – Air Traffic Management) Doc. 4444.

 

Source: CAP 413

 

4.1.6 Speed control

*a) SPEED (number) KILOMETRES PER HOUR (or KNOTS);

b) REPORT SPEED;

c) MAINTAIN (number) KILOMETRES PER HOUR (or KNOTS)

UNTIL (location);

d) MAINTAIN PRESENT SPEED;

e) INCREASE (or REDUCE) SPEED TO (number) KILOMETRES

PER HOUR (or KNOTS);

f) INCREASE (or REDUCE) SPEED BY (number) KILOMETRES

PER HOUR (or KNOTS);

g) RESUME NORMAL SPEED;

h) REDUCE TO MINIMUM APPROACH SPEED;

i) REDUCE TO MINIMUM CLEAN SPEED;

j) NO [ATC] SPEED RESTRICTIONS.

* Denotes pilot transmission.

 

Source: ICAO Doc 4444