VATSIM/MITRE Cooperative Event

[Curley Bryant]

VATUSA Controllers,

 

Many of you maybe familiar with the VATSIM/MITRE Event which will take place at Chicago Saturday, January 5, 2008 from 1400-1600 CST. I am writing you to remind you to be there in support of this experiment as controllers. Although the event is centered at Chicago, it will require the cooperation of the entire division’s ARTCCs hours before and after the event. I’m asking that neighboring ARTCCs of ZAU be online for the even and the neighboring ARTCCs of ZAUs neighboring ARTCCs be online to support. The following are:

 

ZAU Neighbors:

 

ZMP

ZKC

ZID

ZOB

 

Secondary ARTCC Neighbors:

 

ZLC

ZDV

ZAB

ZFW

ZME

ZTL

ZDC

ZNY

ZBW

 

Let’s try and have as much ATC coverage as possible over USA. Most of the above ARTCCs have already planned for this event. For more information please contact your ARTCC Air Traffic Managers and Event Coordinators. Thank You!

[J Jason Vodnansky 810003]

Thanks Curley!

 

It will be these surrounding ARTCCs that will make the event. They will be on the front lines, re-routing and doing the initial spacing.

 

Without these surrounding centers participating, well, I don't want to think about it.

 

Thanks

Jason Vodnansky

[David Klain 874106]

Uh, no...they won't be re-routing. See my response to your post in the other Mitre thread. The routes will be approved as filed ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming they were filed as the flight plan Mitre developed). The ZAU procedures and LOAs between ZAU and neighboring centers do not apply for this event.

 

Dave

[Brad Littlejohn]

Uh, no...they won't be re-routing. See my response to your post in the other Mitre thread. The routes will be approved as filed ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming they were filed as the flight plan Mitre developed). The ZAU procedures and LOAs between ZAU and neighboring centers do not apply for this event.

 

Dave

 

So then here are a couple of speculative questions.

 

To the best of my knowledge, routes that are listed in the LOAs between sectors mimic routes real world LOAs have. I know they do for ZLA, and I believe I can safely [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume the same exists for ZAU and adjacent sectors.

 

Are the routes MITRE approved for this a testbed for future routes to be used in real world LOAs? If not, why take us off something that we use that is based on the real world procedures and LOAs?

 

I guess I'm just wondering about the rationale of not using what we know to be real, and the why behind it..

 

BL.

[Ross Carlson]

Brad, if I may answer your question with a question: What good is a research experiment if you don't alter the norm in any way?

[J Jason Vodnansky 810003]

Perhaps then, VATSIM should have produced a plan detailing what controllers are allowed to do. The way it is being described now, the controllers aren't going to be needed.

 

1) We can not re-route.

2) We can not amend flight plans

 

Due to the above statements.

 

1) We can't utilize holds, because we can't amend the routes, and issuing a hold would do just that!

 

2) We can't off-load to another STAR because that would involve amending a route.

 

Can we adjust their speed? Would that be allowed? I have a whole list of questions, I will get typing...

 

--Edit-- I forgot, adjusting speed would involve amending the flight plans --edit--

[J Jason Vodnansky 810003]

The ZAU procedures and LOAs between ZAU and neighboring centers do not apply for this event.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

I want to make sure I am PERFECTLY clear here.

 

VATGOV2 says...

 

1) ZAU's procedures do NOT apply for this event.

2) LOAs between ZAU and ZOB, ZID, ZKC, and ZMP do NOT apply for this event.

 

Again, I am looking for clarity here, so are those two statements correct?

 

 

Thanks

Jason Vodnansky

[Ross Carlson]

The way it is being described now, the controllers aren't going to be needed.

 

Jason, being dramatic is not productive. Your questions are perfectly fine, but this "the sky is falling" attitude has got to go if you want to be taken seriously.

 

I will spell it out plain and simple so there is no ambiguity:

 

1) MITRE and VATSIM will hold events which create unique situations and which (hopefully) produce usable research data.

 

2) This first event creates a unique situation in that ALL of the routes being flown in the Chicago airspace are RNAV routes.

 

3) This first event is a trial event to help MITRE and VATSIM figure out how these cooperative events will work, and to pinpoint the potential pitfalls.

 

4) In order to satisfy #2, we need to stick to the routes provided by MITRE.

 

5) In order to satisfy #3, and have a successful event, holds and reroutes may be necessary. These should be kept to a minimum in order to satisfy #2 to the fullest extent possible, but we know that with the high level of traffic expected, we will have to compromise.

 

What David means when he says that the LOAs do not apply, is that parts of those LOAs will need to be suspended as needed to satisfy the above conditions. It also means that the stated parameters of this VATSIM event override any local LOAs or policies if those LOAs or policies are contradictory to the parameters of the event.

 

So, in summary, reroutes should be done only as necessary to help the event be a success. They should not be done just to satisfy an LOA or because "that's the way we always do it."

 

As for holds and speed restrictions, of course they are fine. Neither a speed restriction nor a hold constitutes a route amendment.

[David Klain 874106]

That is 100% correct. This guidance has been put out...and the ZAU ATM has been told this by both Ross and Richard. As I posted in the ZAU forums, I have no explanation why the information has not been p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed down to the controllers by him.

 

With regards to your other post about speeds, holds, etc., the statement is taking things to the extreme and irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The whole point is to see if the routes cause interference and if so, where. Obviously at the point where an adjustment has to be made (speed for spacing, a hold if necessary if things get backed up, etc.) the controllers can do that...that is what controllers do!

 

What is not supposed to happen is amending all the flight plan routings to push them all to the standard arrival gates/STARS because then the (in some cases expected) problems won't occur and useable data can't be obtained.

 

As Ross and I have stressed again and again, the purpose of an experiment like this is NOT to test ZAU's ability to mimic what the real world does...it is to evaluate the impact of these routes on traffic flows, see where the bottlenecks/conflicts are, etc.

 

Lastly, for everyone saying these routes don't comply with current procedures/real world LOAs/etc., Mitre obtained these routes from the FAA database -- every one of these routes has been approved by ATC and flown at least once in the real world. The purpose of the experiment is to see how they impact each other...

 

Hope this makes sense. If not, keep asking questions and we'll answer them, but let's not turn this into a discussion about VATSIM's restricting ZAU's ability to do what it wants to do like we've seen in past forum postings on other issues. It's an experiment and (like all good experiments) of course there are controls in place to ensure meaningful data is obtained.

 

Dave