Mark Richards Posted January 18, 2008 at 06:09 AM Posted January 18, 2008 at 06:09 AM Alex, all the data that Jackson Harding supplied on behalf of VATNZ for the FIR.dat file is missing from the official release meaning that the FIR boundaries are still not showing correctly, despite the hours of work that Jackson put into this file. I will email you and Ross separately. Mark Richards (811451) Auckland, New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Balzarotti 1004607 Posted January 18, 2008 at 09:13 AM Posted January 18, 2008 at 09:13 AM Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, I have just finished editing the VATDRC (Vatsim Democratic Republic of Congo) ServInfo data file update based on the 2007 "VATSIM-official" ServInfo data file update released on 01/17/2008 by Alex Stjepanovic and Ross Carlson. The new data file contains all the actual main official D.R.C. and Congo based airlines and relative logos such as: - Hewa Bora Airways - Wimbi Dira Airways - CAA Compagnie Africaine d'Aviation - LAC Lignes Aeriennes Congolaises - Bravo Air Congo After this update you'll se all the pilots logged on VATSIM with the above airlines ICAO code showing the correct airline name and logo. I also wanted to change the actual "Zaire" FIR name and the related Country Flag to Democratic Republic of Congo (the name Zaire has been changed to D.R.C. since 1997) but I've not been able to do that because these informations are probably coded inside the main ServInfo program source code. You can download the update here: http://www.simufly.com/temp/VATDRC/servinfovatdrc.zip I know this is a very small not official ServInfo update and I am not sure this is the correct topic/forum section to announce it, if it is not I am really sorry about this. Kind regards, Marco Balzarotti VATDRC Vatsim Democratic Republic of Congo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 18, 2008 at 02:11 PM Posted January 18, 2008 at 02:11 PM Alex, all the data that Jackson Harding supplied on behalf of VATNZ for the FIR.dat file is missing from the official release meaning that the FIR boundaries are still not showing correctly, despite the hours of work that Jackson put into this file. I will email you and Ross separately. Hi Mark, I've put in whatever data Shannon Wells had sent me. We exchanged a number of emails regarding the boundaries etc and in the end he agreed that what's there right now is what should go into the update. Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Speer Posted January 18, 2008 at 08:18 PM Posted January 18, 2008 at 08:18 PM Just an update. Not sure what was causing the errors but have re-installed and all appears to be working now. Thanks Phillip VATSIM UK Divisional Instructor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 18, 2008 at 08:45 PM Posted January 18, 2008 at 08:45 PM Yea I had some minor glitches too. Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Richards Posted January 18, 2008 at 09:32 PM Posted January 18, 2008 at 09:32 PM Hi Mark, I've put in whatever data Shannon Wells had sent me. We exchanged a number of emails regarding the boundaries etc and in the end he agreed that what's there right now is what should go into the update. Shannon Wells is from VATPAC not VATNZ. Jackson Harding is from VATNZ and supplied the information. His information made it to the servinfo.dat file, but the stuff is absent from the fir.dat file. You will remember Jackson's conversations as it was he who discovered the 6,000 airport limitation to the code in ServInfo. Anyway, I will take it off line and email you and Ross when I am back home tomorrow night (my time). Mark Mark Richards (811451) Auckland, New Zealand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 18, 2008 at 09:35 PM Posted January 18, 2008 at 09:35 PM Yes I remember him, but I had never received any data from the guy....Shannon is the only one who had sent it on behalf of whole VATOCE. Take your time with the email. Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Harding Posted January 19, 2008 at 01:38 AM Posted January 19, 2008 at 01:38 AM Interesting, as the NZ callsign data I updated does seem to have made it, as did all the amended Indonesian data that I compiled. It seems very odd that one complete set of data that I sent finds it's way in and only half of the other, when it was all sent as a single package? Jackson Chair Asia Pacific RCRP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 19, 2008 at 01:40 AM Posted January 19, 2008 at 01:40 AM You are going to have to be more specific....what exactly is missing? Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Harding Posted January 19, 2008 at 01:48 AM Posted January 19, 2008 at 01:48 AM The NZ section of fir.dat has not been updated. It remains from Michael's original. Should look like this: NZZC,61,-48.150000,165.300000,-33.672351,180.000000,NZ00084,-36.000000,177.000000 -42.596153,169.101445, -41.424166,170.390000, -41.133631,170.385759, -40.844429,170.426254, -40.558978,170.500164, -40.279449,170.606928, -40.007971,170.745733, -39.746609,170.915523, -39.497352,171.115005, -39.262098,171.342661, -39.127250,171.556028, -39.127250,171.556028, -38.878815,171.361858, -38.631431,171.170456, -38.371666,171.006782, -38.101498,170.872080, -37.822983,170.767376, -37.538240,170.693468, -37.249436,170.650916, -36.958770,170.640046, -36.668453,170.660940, -36.380695,170.713439, -36.097687,170.797144, -35.821581,170.911416, -35.554479,171.055388, -35.298414,171.227962, -35.055335,171.427826, -34.827092,171.653458, -34.615422,171.903142, -34.421935,172.174977, -34.248105,172.466894, -34.095255,172.776671, -33.964546,173.101952, -33.856975,173.440260, -33.773360,173.789021, -33.714338,174.145580, -33.680357,174.507223, -33.671676,174.871200, -33.688362,175.234738, -33.730287,175.595072, -33.797132,175.949459, -33.888389,176.295203, -34.003362,176.629671, -34.141178,176.950319, -34.300786,177.254705, -34.480973,177.540514, -34.680367,177.805571, -34.897451,178.047857, -35.130572,178.265529, -35.377956,178.456931, -35.637720,178.620605, -35.907888,178.755307, -36.186404,178.860011, -36.471147,178.933919, -37.541528,178.935806, -38.450000,179.733333, -40.004693,178.535361, -41.461806,176.810221, -43.968516,173.688614, -48.218428,168.349836, -45.992758,165.401158, NZZO,7,-60.000000,163.000000,-25.000000,180.000000,$+006 X,-35.000000,-2.041667 -28.000000,168.000000, -30.000000,163.000000, -45.000000,163.000000, -60.000000,163.000000, -60.000000,180.000000, -25.000000,180.000000, -25.000000,171.416667, NZZO,7,-60.000000,-180.000000,-5.000000,-131.000000,NZZO oo,-40.000000,-170.000000 -30.000000,-131.000000, -30.000000,-157.000000, -5.000000,-157.000000, -5.000000,-171.166667, -25.000000,-180.000000, -60.000000,-180.00000, -60.000000,-131.000000, NZCS,13,-48.150000,165.300000,-33.672351,180.000000,NZ00084,-45.000000,170.000000 -42.596153,169.101445, -43.540346,171.550551, -43.751555,171.662277, -43.836472,171.718333, -43.979944,171.870444, -44.055194,171.996638, -44.121944,172.168583, -44.166222,172.406583, -44.152688,172.728387, -43.749277,172.914027, -43.968516,173.688614, -48.218428,168.349836, -45.992758,165.401158, NZCM,4,-90.000000,163.000000,-60.000000,180.000000,$+006 X,-75.000000,171.000000 -90.000000,163.000000, -60.000000,163.000000, -60.000000,180.000000, -89.900000,180.000000, NZCM,4,-90.000000,-180.000000,-60.000000,-131.000000,$ 006NZ,-65.000000,-177.500000 -60.000000,-180.000000, -60.000000,-131.000000, -90.000000,-131.000000, -89.900000,-180.000000, NZOH,24,-48.150000,165.300000,-33.672351,180.000000,NZ00084,-40.000000,176.500000 -40.951888,175.282388, -41.193173,175.311951, -41.461806,176.810221, -40.004693,178.535361, -39.152221,177.755221, -38.928528,177.437443, -38.906306,176.795278, -38.911575,176.749610, -38.921668,176.688859, -38.935810,176.629479, -38.953894,176.571920, -38.975783,176.516623, -39.001310,176.464006, -39.030281,176.414471, -39.062475,176.368394, -39.098693,176.327721, -38.932333,175.875693, -38.931971,175.372028, -38.921556,175.313750, -38.846778,174.913388, -39.697721,174.918083, -40.631611,174.923471, -40.631611,174.996556, -40.710693,175.272833, NZCW,52,-48.150000,165.300000,-33.672351,180.000000,NZ00084,-40.000000,172.750000 -40.844429,170.426254, -40.558978,170.500164, -40.279449,170.606928, -40.007971,170.745733, -39.746609,170.915523, -39.497352,171.115005, -39.262098,171.342661, -39.127250,171.556028, -39.023333,173.896000, -39.007250,174.183943, -38.826611,174.806611, -38.846778,174.913388, -39.697721,174.918083, -40.631611,174.923471, -40.631611,174.996556, -40.710693,175.272833, -40.951888,175.282388, -41.193173,175.311951, -41.452802,175.356844, -41.597499,175.244348, -41.684650,175.121739, -41.739445,174.951939, -41.749336,174.732717, -41.853518,174.685029, -41.822138,174.579000, -41.703556,174.166806, -41.703556,174.166833, -41.711111,173.521361, -41.728798,173.472526, -41.743545,173.422014, -41.754928,173.369983, -41.762862,173.316830, -41.767285,173.262959, -41.768164,173.208780, -41.765492,173.154705, -41.759290,173.101146, -41.749604,173.048510, -41.736509,172.997198, -41.720105,172.947600, -41.700515,172.900095, -41.674666,172.849000, -41.648705,172.807247, -41.620197,172.768560, -41.589264,172.733326, -41.556143,172.701815, -41.521084,172.674267, -41.484355,172.650891, -41.446235,172.631865, -41.407015,172.617333, -41.366992,172.607408, -41.326471,172.602163, -41.272443,172.604806, NZCN,50,-48.150000,165.300000,-33.672351,180.000000,NZ00084,-42.500000,173.500000 -41.193173,175.311951, -41.452802,175.356844, -41.597499,175.244348, -41.684650,175.121739, -41.739445,174.951939, -41.749336,174.732717, -41.853518,174.685029, -41.822138,174.579000, -41.703556,174.166806, -41.703556,174.166833, -41.711111,173.521361, -41.728798,173.472526, -41.743545,173.422014, -41.754928,173.369983, -41.762862,173.316830, -41.767285,173.262959, -41.768164,173.208780, -41.765492,173.154705, -41.759290,173.101146, -41.749604,173.048510, -41.736509,172.997198, -41.720105,172.947600, -41.700515,172.900095, -41.674666,172.849000, -41.648705,172.807247, -41.620197,172.768560, -41.589264,172.733326, -41.556143,172.701815, -41.521084,172.674267, -41.484355,172.650891, -41.446235,172.631865, -41.407015,172.617333, -41.366992,172.607408, -41.326471,172.602163, -41.272443,172.604806, -40.844429,170.426254, -41.133631,170.385759, -41.424166,170.390000, -42.596153,169.101445, -43.540346,171.550551, -43.751555,171.662277, -43.836472,171.718333, -43.979944,171.870444, -44.055194,171.996638, -44.121944,172.168583, -44.166222,172.406583, -44.152688,172.728387, -43.749277,172.914027, -43.968516,173.688614, -41.461806,176.810221, NZCA,65,-48.150000,165.300000,-33.672351,180.000000,NZ00084,-37.500000,174.500000 -38.450000,179.733333, -40.004693,178.535361, -39.152221,177.755221, -38.928528,177.437443, -38.906306,176.795278, -38.911575,176.749610, -38.921668,176.688859, -38.935810,176.629479, -38.953894,176.571920, -38.975783,176.516623, -39.001310,176.464006, -39.030281,176.414471, -39.062475,176.368394, -39.098693,176.327721, -38.932333,175.875693, -38.931971,175.372028, -38.921556,175.313750, -38.846778,174.913388, -38.826611,174.806611, -39.007250,174.183943, -39.023333,173.896000, -39.127250,171.556028, -38.878815,171.361858, -38.631431,171.170456, -38.371666,171.006782, -38.101498,170.872080, -37.822983,170.767376, -37.538240,170.693468, -37.249436,170.650916, -36.958770,170.640046, -36.668453,170.660940, -36.380695,170.713439, -36.097687,170.797144, -35.821581,170.911416, -35.554479,171.055388, -35.298414,171.227962, -35.055335,171.427826, -34.827092,171.653458, -34.615422,171.903142, -34.421935,172.174977, -34.248105,172.466894, -34.095255,172.776671, -33.964546,173.101952, -33.856975,173.440260, -33.773360,173.789021, -33.714338,174.145580, -33.680357,174.507223, -33.671676,174.871200, -33.688362,175.234738, -33.730287,175.595072, -33.797132,175.949459, -33.888389,176.295203, -34.003362,176.629671, -34.141178,176.950319, -34.300786,177.254705, -34.480973,177.540514, -34.680367,177.805571, -34.897451,178.047857, -35.130572,178.265529, -35.377956,178.456931, -35.637720,178.620605, -35.907888,178.755307, -36.186404,178.860011, -36.471147,178.933919, -37.541528,178.935806, Chair Asia Pacific RCRP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 19, 2008 at 02:06 AM Posted January 19, 2008 at 02:06 AM Are these FIRs or sectors? Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Harding Posted January 19, 2008 at 11:41 AM Posted January 19, 2008 at 11:41 AM NZZC is the New Zealand domestic FIR, NZZO the Oceanic one and NZCM the McMurdo Region The others are the sectors Jackson Chair Asia Pacific RCRP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 19, 2008 at 02:55 PM Posted January 19, 2008 at 02:55 PM NZZC is the New Zealand domestic FIR, NZZO the Oceanic one and NZCM the McMurdo Region The others are the sectors Jackson Just as I thought. For a while there I thought you were talking about actual smaller FIRs....but it turns out it's all the way it should be after all. Here's the story. I remember deleting these and adding them under NZZC for a number of reasons: First: When Shannon explained the situation of the way Australia's new FIR came into existence from the old YMMM and YBBB, I asked if same was true for NZZC but I never got an answer on it. Therefore I had to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume that these were not FIRs, because if I were to leave them the way they were(As sectors/without knowing what exactly they were), it would have been unfair on other countries who had also wanted to add sectors, but couldn't cause of reasons already explained on more than one occasion. Second: Your own website doesn't list them as FIRs, but sectors....and as I've explained so many times, it wasn't possible to add sectors in this time round. Third: New Zealand's aviation authority lists only NZZC and NZZO as the two FIRs in existence in New Zealand, thereby also suggesting that these are sectors and not FIRs. Fourth: When testing them out with data files, these would light up separately suggesting a similar sectorization to one available on your web site, again suggesting that they were sectors and not FIRs. Fifth: Unlike with Australia who had split up into smaller FIRs, you had left NZZC FIR there, again suggesting that you had them in place as sectors, while still wanting to have the main FIR there. Sixth: All of the FIRs in your file had a name format like this "New Zealand() FIR" - e.g. "New Zealand(North) FIR". Naturally this is of course down to you and your country to decide how to name your own FIRs, but if it wasn't for all the other points listed above, it would have been more far more believable that these were FIRs, rather than sectors. NZCM Was not added because no other country has polar center sectors extending that far. They all go as far as the top of SI map to the north and as far as the line at about 60S to the south. So as you can see, all the investigating I did to figure out what they were was correct Also since you've now told me that they are sectors, a few things can finally happen: First: I can stop worrying about not adding some country's portion of FIR updates. You can use the search function to find out why it isn't possible to add sectors this time round, I've explained it a few times. Second: You now know that I didn't include them for a good reason. Third: You know that you tried adding sectors when you knew quite well, that it wasn't possible. There were posts listed; The emails Shannon and I exchanged explained it; Other countries knew; etc. Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Harding Posted January 20, 2008 at 04:44 AM Posted January 20, 2008 at 04:44 AM Then why are the Australian sectors listed? They have not split into smaller FIRs at all, as has been the case since Australia moved to a two centre ATC set up in real life there are only two FIRs in Australia, YMMM and YBBB. This is the situation within VATPAC, all of the Australian sectors in the current file are just that, sectors. I should know, I designed them when I was VATPAC2 and the data therein was put together by me a few years ago before VATNZ split off VATPAC. I also fly in the real life Australian airspace, I'm well aware of what the arrangement of the airspace is. The VATPAC website also lists them as sectors not FIRs, so it's good enough for them, but not for us when we share more or less identical operating patterns? Also why did you ask VATPAC about a VATNZ matter? If you'd asked us we could have given you the correct information. Because of the size of the Australian and New Zealand FIRs the sectorisation is vitally important for the correct operation of the airspace. No one ever logs on as NZZC, with just NZZC in the data and the sector callsigns in servinfo.dat members log on with the sector callsigns and the NZZC fir never lights up. Additionally all of the airports within NZ have been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to the appropriate sector (as is the case with the Australian data - again I know because I did it some years ago), not NZZC so when, say NZAA_TWR comes on line there will be no indication of FIR there either. As a consequence this update is of zero utility in NZ, and will be downright confusing to visitors. The same operational setup applies to VATPAC. In the original local file I did YMMM and YBBB remained so that when some people logged in with an incorrect callsign at least there was some indication that a controller was on. The same logic applies here. NZCM IS important. It sees regular flights because of the polar bases, and the summer series of sightseeing flights which are operated by real life New Zealand and Australian carriers and replicated by several local VAs. The centre is there and it is opened occasionally on VATSIM (albeit not very often). There is an inherent danger in applying one countries logic to that of another, other countries may not have polar sectors that go that far, New Zealand does. If you'd asked VATNZ not VATPAC you'd have been told this. Incidentally YMMM goes all the way to 90S too, although it's Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] G airspace below 60S, although IFR aircraft operating in it are required to maintain contact on HF or via data link. With the Australian Antarctic Division now starting regular flights to Wilkins in Antarctica (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/sup/s8-h11.pdf) it's only a matter of time before people start replicating this on VATSIM Finally I dispute in it's entirety your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ertion that all your investigations were correct, you didn't ever approach the division who had supplied the data to get our take on it. To take half the data out (and thereby neutering the other half) after contacting a member from another division about it can hardly be called correct. Mark is currently in transit across the Tasman, I expect he'll contact you via email when he gets home later today. Jackson PS I have searched and I can't find a post that outline why adding sectors was impossible (obviously for everyone other than VATPAC that is) And emails sent to VATPAC don't cut it as far as VATNZ is concerned. Canadians will understand where I am coming from. Chair Asia Pacific RCRP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristan Blackburn 895205 Posted January 20, 2008 at 05:06 AM Posted January 20, 2008 at 05:06 AM This is something that really shouldn't be posted in the public realm, and should ideally be resolved through other communication mediums. The general VATSIM community does not need to be subjected to this whether it be a misunderstanding or otherwise. Tristan Blackburn VATSIM Data Audit Manager VATPAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Smith Posted January 20, 2008 at 10:01 AM Posted January 20, 2008 at 10:01 AM Just a suggestion: wouldn't it be better to host the file elsewhere, in a way which it can be updated on a regular basis? Like everything, VATSIM is a constantly chaning/developing infrastructure, and I would have thought its better to keep that updated? Anyways, good job on the update Alex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todor Atanasov 878664 Posted January 20, 2008 at 10:19 AM Posted January 20, 2008 at 10:19 AM I agree with Oliver, can we open some database for files like that, for example file for SI, airlines file for SI, ES and so on...so any one who wonts to make a update, just need to donwload the file, add the update and upload it again with some info about the updated parts. So the next person come, see the updated info and date and download it if he/she has the older file. The real life situation is such, that needs much more updates then once in 5 years update. EuroScope BETA Tester/Board of Designers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Doorgakant Posted January 20, 2008 at 12:19 PM Posted January 20, 2008 at 12:19 PM Just a suggestion: wouldn't it be better to host the file elsewhere, in a way which it can be updated on a regular basis? Like everything, VATSIM is a constantly chaning/developing infrastructure, and I would have thought its better to keep that updated? Anyways, good job on the update Alex! I agree, also the different Regions/Divisions/vACCs/VA's could host their updates on their own respective websites as they also are contantly developing. Of course these updates would be sent in on the next global update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Black Posted January 22, 2008 at 06:28 AM Posted January 22, 2008 at 06:28 AM I appreciate the hard work that went into this, however I sent more than one email with SImCOA.org details and yet it didnt seem to be included. We've been around for over 2 years and have the largest number of active pilots flying under the COA (continental) callsign. Needless to say, I was a bit disappointed. Respectfully, Chad Black Click here to see my 12 years worth of Flight Sim Screenshots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 22, 2008 at 07:54 AM Posted January 22, 2008 at 07:54 AM Nothing received from COA on my end. Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kan Posted January 25, 2008 at 08:36 PM Posted January 25, 2008 at 08:36 PM (edited) here is an issue I found: I saw Allentown Tower (KABE) online, but it does not show up on the map. What exactly do you mean by saw it online. Are you reffering to seeing it on VRC/SB/FSInn/satnet-data.txt/etc or under the All Controllers Tab in SI? Figured this out. KABE Positions won't show up on the map because KABE happens to be the first airport under the [AIRPORTS] list. To fix this just put in a dummy airport on top of it. THis is what I entered above KABE so now KABE is second on the list. KAAA/Kevin Kan Intl/+041.652364-076.440403/AAA/KZNY/63 If you guys can include this on the next update since this is the primary airport we use to train MINORs with the new VATUSA training system. Edited January 25, 2008 at 10:39 PM by Guest Like my GOAT? Too bad, it's mine. My airline flying at the speed of normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 25, 2008 at 10:07 PM Posted January 25, 2008 at 10:07 PM Yea I thought it'd be something like that....thx for the fix Kevin. Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kan Posted January 25, 2008 at 10:41 PM Posted January 25, 2008 at 10:41 PM np, I got another thing I want to change but so far I can't figure it out. Trying to find the right spot to start to change the ARTCC boundaries Like my GOAT? Too bad, it's mine. My airline flying at the speed of normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted January 25, 2008 at 10:49 PM Posted January 25, 2008 at 10:49 PM Check your PMs, I've sent you a few notes you could find useful. Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abdelrahman M. Elfeky 1044 Posted May 7, 2008 at 05:58 PM Posted May 7, 2008 at 05:58 PM thanks for the updates , all things is done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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