Shawn Goldsworthy 925085 Posted February 12, 2008 at 02:33 AM Posted February 12, 2008 at 02:33 AM Just like the title says. We are officially replacing the CIVET5 arrival with the RIIVR1. The procedures are very similar. The RIIVR1 is a profile arrival just like the CIVET5 but has a slightly different routing. All the routes on simroutes.com have been updated to accommodate the change. Grab the new chart and come give it a try! Shawn "SX" Goldsworthy Retired ATM/ Staff Instructor Los Angeles ARTCC N123SX | xxx554 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francisco Obregon 1004310 Posted February 12, 2008 at 05:34 AM Posted February 12, 2008 at 05:34 AM Just like the title says. We are officially replacing the CIVET5 arrival with the RIIVR1. The procedures are very similar. The RIIVR1 is a profile arrival just like the CIVET5 but has a slightly different routing. All the routes on simroutes.com have been updated to accommodate the change. Grab the new chart and come give it a try! I actually did the other day! I saw it and I saw all flights using it, So I took it out for a spin, Very similar, just a few minor changes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward McCoy 904185 Posted February 13, 2008 at 09:16 AM Posted February 13, 2008 at 09:16 AM I flew it in the RW at the end of Jan. Still a STAR that keeps you on your toes, we had the spoilers in flight detent for a good 12k of the descent. EDIT: Something is already gonna change. The RIIVR2 is to be released on July 31st. Along with updates to the SEAVU and OLDEE. Edward J. McCoy Albuquerque ARTCC DATM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Williams 877539 Posted February 13, 2008 at 04:13 PM Posted February 13, 2008 at 04:13 PM Note for X-plane users: the 25R and 24L nav fixes are not in our database. I've sent the corrections to Robin Peel, so hopefully they'll be in the next one (or you can add them yourself). If you're flying via FMC, you might want to request 24R or 25L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mulhollan 929446 Posted February 14, 2008 at 12:45 AM Posted February 14, 2008 at 12:45 AM Note for X-plane users: the 25R and 24L nav fixes are not in our database. I've sent the corrections to Robin Peel, so hopefully they'll be in the next one (or you can add them yourself). If you're flying via FMC, you might want to request 24R or 25L. That shouldn't be too much of a problem considering that the main arrival runways at LAX are 25L and 24R. Very seldom land 25R/24L unless pilot request. Scott Mulhollan - ZAB Instructor ZAB Training Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Phyrio 988306 Posted February 26, 2008 at 12:49 AM Posted February 26, 2008 at 12:49 AM Ho ho! Last night, I was tryna give Tom Solon some traffic outta KLAS so gave 'em the ol' CIVET5 into LAX. Was on that flight with some guy coming in from New Yawk. I see by ServInfo that he's on the RIIVR1. He gets on the window and asks me what rwy I'm figuring on. Now, this is a guy who reported on UNICOM when he was 140 miles out so I don't wanna mess this up, y'unnerstan. So, I tell him that we are going in on different apps and different rwys and everything should be cool. Heh!!! The only reason it was cool was because he was miles behind me. But me, with my vast resevoir of knowledge, goes right ahead and tells him we are on completely different apps. Oh bruddah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mulhollan 929446 Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:28 AM Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:28 AM Ho ho!Last night, I was tryna give Tom Solon some traffic outta KLAS so gave 'em the ol' CIVET5 into LAX. Was on that flight with some guy coming in from New Yawk. I see by ServInfo that he's on the RIIVR1. He gets on the window and asks me what rwy I'm figuring on. Now, this is a guy who reported on UNICOM when he was 140 miles out so I don't wanna mess this up, y'unnerstan. So, I tell him that we are going in on different apps and different rwys and everything should be cool. Heh!!! The only reason it was cool was because he was miles behind me. But me, with my vast resevoir of knowledge, goes right ahead and tells him we are on completely different apps. Oh bruddah. Mike, the CIVET5 and the RIIVR1 arrivals are not terribly different. No need to worry Scott Mulhollan - ZAB Instructor ZAB Training Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Atkielski 985811 Posted February 26, 2008 at 12:32 PM Posted February 26, 2008 at 12:32 PM So what changed? I've flown both arrivals and they seem to be extraordinarily similar. What does the RIIVR1 arrival have that the CIVET5 didn't? (I don't have them in front of me, but I'll try to compare them later and see what's different.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Smith Posted February 26, 2008 at 12:48 PM Posted February 26, 2008 at 12:48 PM So what changed? I've flown both arrivals and they seem to be extraordinarily similar. What does the RIIVR1 arrival have that the CIVET5 didn't? (I don't have them in front of me, but I'll try to compare them later and see what's different.) different routing, but I don't have them with me so i cant tell you what changed between the old and new routing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cassel 849958 Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:01 PM Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:01 PM Some(not all of the changes): -The runway transitions begin a little later than they used to. -The published crossing restriction at GRAMM is now GRAMM between 17000 and FL210, at 290 knots. The old went from 17000-FL190 at 280 knots. -Some very minor changes to the crossing restrictions(moving some from CIVET to RIIVR), other minor changes. -Very minor change in routing, as was mentioned above My understanding is(don't use it in real life), that this arrival was designed with the idea in mind that Center would eventually begin giving the instruction "Descend via the RIIVR1 arrival", and then, upon initial contact with Socal, the pilot would get a runway. I don't know if this plan is actually in use at the moment; for Virtual ZLA, you can still expect to get the usual cross GRAMM at FL180/FL190. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:11 PM Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:11 PM For Clearance Delivery purposes over in ZDV, is the Grandpa 1 still in use? If I'm correct this was another STAR similar to the CIVET5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cassel 849958 Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:14 PM Posted February 26, 2008 at 04:14 PM The GRNPA1 is an arrival into Las Vegas(KLAS). It is completely valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Wollenberg 810243 Posted February 26, 2008 at 07:25 PM Posted February 26, 2008 at 07:25 PM My understanding is(don't use it in real life), that this arrival was designed with the idea in mind that Center would eventually begin giving the instruction "Descend via the RIIVR1 arrival", and then, upon initial contact with Socal, the pilot would get a runway. I don't know if this plan is actually in use at the moment; for Virtual ZLA, you can still expect to get the usual cross GRAMM at FL180/FL190. That was originally the plan, but it isn't being used that way real world yet either. Center issues the GRAMM crossing at the lowest usable flight level, and you get the "descend via" and expected approach/rwy on initial contact with Socal. Bryan Wollenberg ZLA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Phyrio 988306 Posted February 27, 2008 at 04:42 PM Posted February 27, 2008 at 04:42 PM My understanding is(don't use it inThat was originally the plan, but it isn't being used that way real world yet either. Center issues the GRAMM crossing at the lowest usable flight level, and you get the "descend via" and expected approach/rwy on initial contact with Socal. The CIVET and SEAVU have always been two of my fave apps into LAX. Once you get to GRAMM or KONZL (at the proper alt unt schpeed, of course ...gnarf gnarf), the contollers just tell you to descend via the app and you are free to see how close you can get to all those alts, speeds and fixes. Some fun Lucy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Tomlinson 1014292 Posted March 15, 2008 at 04:47 PM Posted March 15, 2008 at 04:47 PM I found this report pertaining to CDA studies and in particular an analysis of the CIVIT5 and RIIVR1 arrivals., Thought you might find it interesting. Continuous Descent Arrivals: Noise, Emissions, and Fuel Burn Reductions http://www.aviation-noise.org/events/2007Conf/Presentations/Clarke.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted March 17, 2008 at 08:59 PM Posted March 17, 2008 at 08:59 PM The GRNPA1 is an arrival into Las Vegas(KLAS). It is completely valid. Ahh, not my brightest moment on the forums ... thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn McIntyre 1051149 Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:00 AM Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:00 AM Yeah I too have done the RIIVR1 arrival into KLAX before, it's exactly like CIVET5, it's cool lol. Also the OLM5 arrival into KSEA changed to the OLM6 arrival. They are exactly the same It's pretty cool how they change the name but not the waypoints and altitude restrictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Catherwood 903683 Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:18 AM Posted March 18, 2008 at 12:18 AM Yeah I too have done the RIIVR1 arrival into KLAX before, it's exactly like CIVET5, it's cool lol. Also the OLM5 arrival into KSEA changed to the OLM6 arrival. They are exactly the same It's pretty cool how they change the name but not the waypoints and altitude restrictions They did change it; they changed the crossing at OLM landing South for turbojets from at 17000 and 280kt to at or above 17000 and 280kt (formerly changed by NOTAM), and added the waypoint LACEE KZSE C3/Facilities Administrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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