Luca Vetturi 874351 Posted May 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM Posted May 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM Hi, I'm defining, one by one, all the sids and stars for the italian airports in the ese file. Having a lot of airports with, let's say, a VOR and an NDB with the same 3-letter identifier, how can I specify it? example: STAR:LIME:28:LUSIL1S:LUSIL ORI ORI The first ori to be called is an NDB, the second one is a VOR. Red over white, you're all right. Italy vACC proud supporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted May 7, 2008 at 10:58 AM Posted May 7, 2008 at 10:58 AM Does it matter? Surely if they have the same identifier they should also be collocated (or very close to each other anyway), so for the purpose of drawing the route in EuroScope it shouldn't matter. Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Vetturi 874351 Posted May 7, 2008 at 11:17 AM Author Posted May 7, 2008 at 11:17 AM ehm... they're 5NM apart... It wouldn't have sense otherwise... Red over white, you're all right. Italy vACC proud supporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted May 7, 2008 at 11:55 AM Posted May 7, 2008 at 11:55 AM If you ask me two, different beacons with the same name in the same procedure is ridiculous and potentially unsafe, but I guess that's not our problem. Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted May 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM Posted May 7, 2008 at 12:24 PM It is not unsafe....otherwise there were accidents every day! Are there accidents due to this? No. Question answered. One option may be to rename all NDBs in your database and append the two letters "NB" to them. ORI would become ORINB. In the databases of Honeywell Flight Management Systems it is done this way. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todor Atanasov 878664 Posted May 7, 2008 at 12:58 PM Posted May 7, 2008 at 12:58 PM mmmm....I may be mistaken but ES does draws the sid from left to right (in the definition)....Did you try that STAR...how did it look? But I must admit this is a case which hasn't be even thought. EuroScope BETA Tester/Board of Designers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephan Boerner 945550 Posted May 7, 2008 at 01:05 PM Posted May 7, 2008 at 01:05 PM ES wouldn't be able to make a difference between the VOR and the NDB. It would probably use the first one in the sectorfile. Stephan Boerner VATEUD - ATC Training Director EuroScope Board of Designers | GVCCS Beta Tester EuroScope Quick Start Guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Vetturi 874351 Posted May 7, 2008 at 04:23 PM Author Posted May 7, 2008 at 04:23 PM mmmm....I may be mistaken but ES does draws the sid from left to right (in the definition)....Did you try that STAR...how did it look? But I must admit this is a case which hasn't be even thought. Ok, I know it goes left to right... I'm asking if there's a way to let this thing work. There's a star where a pilot must first fly to ORI ndb, then to ORI vor. Red over white, you're all right. Italy vACC proud supporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Vetturi 874351 Posted May 7, 2008 at 04:24 PM Author Posted May 7, 2008 at 04:24 PM One option may be to rename all NDBs in your database and append the two letters "NB" to them. ORI would become ORINB. In the databases of Honeywell Flight Management Systems it is done this way. Thank you Andreas, that's a nice idea. Red over white, you're all right. Italy vACC proud supporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted May 7, 2008 at 08:37 PM Posted May 7, 2008 at 08:37 PM It is not unsafe....otherwise there were accidents every day! Are there accidents due to this? No. Question answered. "Proceed direct Oscar Romeo India"... What does that mean if there are two beacons called ORI in the same procedure? Of course there are workarounds to this, but it doesn't mean that it's advisable to design a procedure in that way. Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted May 7, 2008 at 08:44 PM Posted May 7, 2008 at 08:44 PM Hi Martin, because in the real world we do not fly procedurs "raw data" anymore but with an FMC only. The SIDs are programmed into it and we just check whether it is correct (according to the charts) or not. If there is a VOR and an NDB of the same ID and Name, ATC will tell you to proceed either to the locator/NDB or to the VOR. If a pilot is not sure, he will ask Yepp, that's the real world. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Loxbo Posted May 9, 2008 at 01:24 PM Posted May 9, 2008 at 01:24 PM Of course, all I am saying is that if you (the authority giving identifiers to nav aids) have the choice to choose different IDs for different beacons, then obviously that would be the best course of action. Also, not everybody has an FMS even these days... and ATC and procedures aren't perfect everywhere in the world. Martin Loxbo Director Sweden FIR VATSIM Scandinavia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Csernak Posted May 10, 2008 at 08:11 PM Posted May 10, 2008 at 08:11 PM Back to the original question: EuroScope is unable to distinguish between the VOR and NDB if they have the same name. It will search for one type first and if the name is found then the other type is ignored at all. Andreas' idea could work as it makes the name unique. May be we have to add an optional type specifier like ORI(NDB) and ORI(VOR). Gergely. EuroScope developer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts