Embry-Riddle thinks highly of VATSIM?

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

If ATC is your thing, isn't there a CTI school in Miami? South FL is an awesome place to live. I dunno why everyone limits their CTI choices to UND or ERAU. Realistically the FAA couldn't care less which one you go to. The real learning isn't going to start until you get to OKC anyway.

 

If you want to fly for a living, I'm a big fan of Mom and Pop's FBO Flight Academy combined with at least a bachelor's degree in something non aviation related from an accredited university. In my humble opinion ERAU, UND, and all of the university pilot training programs are overpriced and overrated.

[Ethan Klapper 884347]

If ATC is your thing, isn't there a CTI school in Miami? South FL is an awesome place to live. I dunno why everyone limits their CTI choices to UND or ERAU. Realistically the FAA couldn't care less which one you go to. The real learning isn't going to start until you get to OKC anyway.

 

If you want to fly for a living, I'm a big fan of Mom and Pop's FBO Flight Academy combined with at least a bachelor's degree in something non aviation related from an accredited university. In my humble opinion ERAU, UND, and all of the university pilot training programs are overpriced and overrated.

 

I agree. What was your path, Jeff?

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

The same as the preferred path that I described above.

 

I'm not exactly flying MD11's on the Pacific Routes, but I'm in the same position that any ERAU or UND grad my age would be in. Quite a few of my co-workers went through those programs.

 

If one just has extra money floating around and is set on using an accelerated pilot training program of some sort, I would recommend www.allatps.com. They do not offer a degree so that is something that you would have to do seperate, but since virtually all of the training is done in multi-engine airplanes their grads tend to get hired fairly quickly. You could still go through their program and get a bachelor's degree seperate for less than it would cost to get an Aeronautical Science degree from Riddle.

[Andrew Thelander 928235]

UND is my dream. I'm only a freshman in high school right now but that's at the top of my list.

 

I used to live in Illinois. No stranger to cold weather. ERAU is way overpriced and UND is my kind of school.

[Ethan Klapper 884347]

Why spend a college fund on training that the FAA will provide for free in Oklahoma City? Study something that will come in handy if aviation doesn't work out for you (and unfortunately, this is the case for many people).

 

EK

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

Well, the CTI kids have no choice but to study ATC as that is part of the CTI curriculum. I think that there are other CTI schools that are much cheaper than ERAU or UND though. The idea that ERAU or UND training may be better or more useful is just silly. The FAA will teach you the real stuff when you get hired.

 

I know at the high school stages of life when thinking about your future the amount of debt that you will accomeulate for school doesn't seem important. Trust me, there will come a time when you will have house payments, car payments, credit card payments, kids to support, etc. when the monthly payments to ERAU and these other expensive schools will become difficult to make.

 

I am thankful that I chose a route that allowed me to avoid accomeulating a lot of debt. It is because of this that I am able to live comfortably in one of the nicest areas of the country off of a not so great paycheck.

 

Get a good education, but don't break yourself going to overrated and overpriced schools in the process. That is all that I am saying.

[Travis Faudree 821145]

I think some of you folks are not seeing the big picture. Regardless of the fact that I'm an ERAU grad, I wouldn't even think of getting into a field that requires a yearly medical examination without having at the very least a bachelors degree. Not everyone will be able to reach retirement age before encountering medical problems. What do you do then? Sit on your butt and moan and groan because you can't be a controller anymore...or go out and put that sheepskin to use.

 

ERAU or UND, at least get a bachelors degree.

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

ERAU or UND, at least get a bachelors degree.

 

How useful is an aviation related degree going to be for you if you can't fly airplanes? To be blunt about it, if you have an Aeronautical Science degree from Riddle and you lose your medical, your other career options are going to be extremely limited.

 

As I said before, I recommend a degree in something outside of aviation so that it can be used as a backup. No companies that hire professional pilots are interested in what your degree is in, they just want for you to have one.

[Ethan Klapper 884347]

ERAU or UND, at least get a bachelors degree.

 

How useful is an aviation related degree going to be for you if you can't fly airplanes? To be blunt about it, if you have an Aeronautical Science degree from Riddle and you lose your medical, your other career options are going to be extremely limited.

 

As I said before, I recommend a degree in something outside of aviation so that it can be used as a backup. No companies that hire professional pilots are interested in what your degree is in, they just want for you to have one.

 

Excellent point Jeff--and sorta of what I was saying in my last post. Just face it--a lot of airlines aren't hiring right now. In Jeff's case, he got lucky.

 

And, Riddle doesn't seem to have the prestige that many people, especially on these forums hype it up to have. Just look at these stats from College Board:

 

* 20% in top 10th of graduating cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]

* 48% in top quarter of graduating cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]

* 77% in top half of graduating cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]

 

* 20% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher

* 18% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74

* 19% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49

* 17% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24

* 20% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

* 5% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49

* 1% had h.s. GPA between 1.0 and 1.99

 

That's not an amazing track record.

 

Now my goal is not to blast Embry-Riddle. I am just saying that people need to think about where they go to college, think about the outlook for the industry, and think about how much it is going to cost. Talk to your guidance counselor about it. I know mine doesn't recommend Embry-Riddle to anyone for the same reasons Jeff just said! I am going through the process myself, and will be applying to colleges this fall.

 

My 2 Cents!

 

EK

[Travis Faudree 821145]

* 20% in top 10th of graduating cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]

* 48% in top quarter of graduating cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]

* 77% in top half of graduating cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]

 

* 20% had h.s. GPA of 3.75 and higher

* 18% had h.s. GPA between 3.5 and 3.74

* 19% had h.s. GPA between 3.25 and 3.49

* 17% had h.s. GPA between 3.0 and 3.24

* 20% had h.s. GPA between 2.5 and 2.99

* 5% had h.s. GPA between 2.0 and 2.49

* 1% had h.s. GPA between 1.0 and 1.99

 

That's not an amazing track record.

 

Now my goal is not to blast Embry-Riddle. I am just saying that people need to think about where they go to college, think about the outlook for the industry, and think about how much it is going to cost. Talk to your guidance counselor about it. I know mine doesn't recommend Embry-Riddle to anyone for the same reasons Jeff just said! I am going through the process myself, and will be applying to colleges this fall.

 

My 2 Cents!

 

EK

 

Trust me, just about all of those bottom 26 percent wash out in the first semester. I remember sitting in my Private Pilot cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] with people that couldn't figure out which way was north on the sectional chart. I can guarantee that they were the ones with a 2.5 or less in high school, based on the conversations I had with them outside of cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts].

 

I agree though, in the current day, ERAU is probably not worth it. They have gone through some major internal overhauls, the latest being the President resigning. I enrolled pre-9/11, and it was obvious that things took a downturn following. Do I regret sticking it out? No. Would I apply to and attend ERAU if I was a high school senior now? More than likely, no.

 

Thats my take on it...

[Marko Savatic 825464]

Well

Here are some little things about the FAA, OKC and why they don't take people right off the street to go to OKC. OKC back in the day was setup as a screening facility for Candidates to be Air Traffic Controllers. It is still somewhat used for that purpose, but now it is used for training purposes. From what I have heard from previous OKC graduates, is that it is a waste of time if you are from certain CTI schools, and it is the only time you get to start working on the sims for other CTI schools. This is one of the major reasons that FAA isn't going to direct hire is because of the sims and what each CTI school is offering.

If the FAA did direct hiring, they could do it out of 4 schools. University of North Dakota , Embry Riddle, University of Anchorage, Alaska, and Community College of Beaver County. The reason for that is that they have Simulators and training devices that you can practice and get proficient on. I can tell you at UND, we have got a kick [Mod - Happy Thoughts] brand new Radar lab worth 1.6 million and a full 360 degree tower sim as well as a 225 voice recognition tower simulator. Most of UND students are proficient enough that we could go straight out and start training at the facility we get placed at. NATCA is currently in the process of negotiation contracts with the FAA, and in the future, if direct hire is approved, it'll save the FAA millions.

The other schools that can't go direct hire, don't have sims or their sims are not good enough where their students are trained to a level that they would be able and start controlling right away at their workplace. Most all that they are is just lectures on how ATC works, but they don't get to apply it. In order for you to go down to OKC though is that you need to be a CTI with a degree in ATC.

Hope this answers a few of your questions and hopefully someone else can fill in what I left out.

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

Well

Here are some little things about the FAA, OKC and why they don't take people right off the street to go to OKC. OKC back in the day was setup as a screening facility for Candidates to be Air Traffic Controllers. It is still somewhat used for that purpose, but now it is used for training purposes. From what I have heard from previous OKC graduates, is that it is a waste of time if you are from certain CTI schools, and it is the only time you get to start working on the sims for other CTI schools. This is one of the major reasons that FAA isn't going to direct hire is because of the sims and what each CTI school is offering.

If the FAA did direct hiring, they could do it out of 4 schools. University of North Dakota , Embry Riddle, University of Anchorage, Alaska, and Community College of Beaver County. The reason for that is that they have Simulators and training devices that you can practice and get proficient on. I can tell you at UND, we have got a kick [Mod - Happy Thoughts] brand new Radar lab worth 1.6 million and a full 360 degree tower sim as well as a 225 voice recognition tower simulator. Most of UND students are proficient enough that we could go straight out and start training at the facility we get placed at. NATCA is currently in the process of negotiation contracts with the FAA, and in the future, if direct hire is approved, it'll save the FAA millions.

The other schools that can't go direct hire, don't have sims or their sims are not good enough where their students are trained to a level that they would be able and start controlling right away at their workplace. Most all that they are is just lectures on how ATC works, but they don't get to apply it. In order for you to go down to OKC though is that you need to be a CTI with a degree in ATC.

Hope this answers a few of your questions and hopefully someone else can fill in what I left out.

 

But the FAA doesn't do direct hiring, so this is a moot point. Why spend the extra money for UND or ERAU if you can go to a cheaper CTI school and get the same job and same training at OKC?

 

I'm not trying to put some of your schools down, I'm simply bringing a bit of logic into the equation that you won't get from the "college counselors" aka salesmen.

[Ethan Klapper 884347]

And on top of that, I would recommend everybody who wants to go to a CTI to get a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] 2 medical before they apply. It would be very disappointing if you fail the medical, yet are stuck with that college.

[Chanse Watson 834810]

And on top of that, I would recommend everybody who wants to go to a CTI to get a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] 2 medical before they apply. It would be very disappointing if you fail the medical, yet are stuck with that college.

 

Exactly why I wouldn't recommend Riddle to anyone. I was told that one of the first questions asked by an examiner during a checkride is "How much are you in debt?" I have considered going to Riddle, but for me, going to Louisiana Tech is a better choice. Not only will I receive 15 hours of college credit if I get my Instrument Rating before walking in the door as a freshman, I will also be a CFI by my sophomore year, TEACHING students older and younger than me how to fly, getting paid for it, AND logging hours. Not tomention, if something DID go wrong, my major in Aviation Management and a minor in business will serve well as a backup.

 

Yes, Riddle is a prestigious flight school and airliners do like to see that in your resume, but I can get to where I want to be in the aviation field a lot quicker and cheaper. Now, if I had a full scholarship to Riddle, I might consider it...

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

Exactly why I wouldn't recommend Riddle to anyone. I was told that one of the first questions asked by an examiner during a checkride is "How much are you in debt?" I have considered going to Riddle, but for me, going to Louisiana Tech is a better choice. Not only will I receive 15 hours of college credit if I get my Instrument Rating before walking in the door as a freshman, I will also be a CFI by my sophomore year, TEACHING students older and younger than me how to fly, getting paid for it, AND logging hours. Not tomention, if something DID go wrong, my major in Aviation Management and a minor in business will serve well as a backup.

 

Now here is a man who has done his homework. Nice work.

 

Yes, Riddle is a prestigious flight school and airliners do like to see that in your resume,

 

Actually, it isn't as prestigious as it once was and honestly no airline cares if you got your degree from ERAU or Matilda's School of Knitting. By the time you get to an airline interview having a degree is expected, but what sets you apart from the other candidates is your flight time and attitude.

[Ethan Klapper 884347]

Exactly why I wouldn't recommend Riddle to anyone. I was told that one of the first questions asked by an examiner during a checkride is "How much are you in debt?" I have considered going to Riddle, but for me, going to Louisiana Tech is a better choice. Not only will I receive 15 hours of college credit if I get my Instrument Rating before walking in the door as a freshman, I will also be a CFI by my sophomore year, TEACHING students older and younger than me how to fly, getting paid for it, AND logging hours. Not tomention, if something DID go wrong, my major in Aviation Management and a minor in business will serve well as a backup.

 

Now here is a man who has done his homework. Nice work.

 

Yes, Riddle is a prestigious flight school and airliners do like to see that in your resume,

 

Actually, it isn't as prestigious as it once was and honestly no airline cares if you got your degree from ERAU or Matilda's School of Knitting. By the time you get to an airline interview having a degree is expected, but what sets you apart from the other candidates is your flight time and attitude.

 

And this comes from a man who flies Part 121 runs in a Regional Jet for a living and didn't go to Riddle! I'm sure there are plenty of Riddle grads who aren't as lucky as Jeff.

[Chad Black]

Alas! Both ERU and UND have huge campuses in Arizona... AZ provides the best (statisically) flying weather in the USA.

[Marko Savatic 825464]

But the FAA doesn't do direct hiring, so this is a moot point. Why spend the extra money for UND or ERAU if you can go to a cheaper CTI school and get the same job and same training at OKC?

 

I'm not trying to put some of your schools down, I'm simply bringing a bit of logic into the equation that you won't get from the "college counselors" aka salesmen."

 

Well Jeff

I don't know about other universities, but UND if fairly cheap, I pay 7k a year in tutition for out of state... That less than Southern Illinois University (which would be in-state for me) so it is relatively cheap. I don't know what the ones out side of Purdue, ERAU or CCBC charge, but UND is the cheapest one that I know of.

Plus, NATCA is really pushing for direct hires out of these universities. Jeff Carr wouldn't of come to UND to talk to the Student Air Traffic Control Organization if they didn't care about it, because it SAVES the FAA alot of money a year (I wanna say like 43 million for the 4 of the universities I mentioned previously)

[Chanse Watson 834810]

My thing is if I want to be in debt for the rest of my life...or a majority part of it, then I'll go to ERAU or UND. I'm the type of person that if I'm going to be spending the amount of money these schools ask for (which is ridiculously overpriced IMO), a full scholarship would be the only way for me to attend these schools. I just don't see it worth being in debt for so long. Though if you have the money, then more power to ya!

[Andrew Thelander 928235]

Actually, it isn't as prestigious as it once was and honestly no airline cares if you got your degree from ERAU or Matilda's School of Knitting. By the time you get to an airline interview having a degree is expected, but what sets you apart from the other candidates is your flight time and attitude.

 

I think you're being pretty ridiculous there...I can get 10x better training at UND than Matilda's School of Knitting. That has to count for something.

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

I think you're being pretty ridiculous there...I can get 10x better training at UND than Matilda's School of Knitting. That has to count for something.

 

As far as flying is concerned, you can get just as good of flight training at many small Part 61 schools as you can get at UND or ERAU. I'm no Chuck Yeager, but I made it through alright. The large schools boast on teaching "airline procedures" in their curriculum. Thats great, but in my opinion the real emphasis in the early stages of training should be on basic stick and rudder skills, not focusing on a 100+ page book full of silly SOP's and call outs for a Cessna 172 (such as what they have at ERAU).

 

Thats just my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own.

[Marko Savatic 825464]

Thats great, but in my opinion the real emphasis in the early stages of training should be on basic stick and rudder skills, not focusing on a 100+ page book full of silly SOP's and call outs for a Cessna 172 (such as what they have at ERAU).

That is amazing. I focused on quite a bit stick and rudder here at UND (if I have to do another aerodynamics demonstration again...)but it is true, they do make it airline standard training. Being an ATC major, I had to take my flight lessons here, and they do run it like an airline. The university has a registered callsign so no-mater where you fly, you use the callsign "Sioux XX" which was fun, but it is cool to use the callsign "November two six three four echo" as well. They make the cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es here very challenging, as they train everybody like airline pilots, even if you aren't majoring in commerical aviation. I will tell you that you do get more at these places than you will get at a Part 61 school, as my roommate complains all the time about how he has to know so much more for a part 121 rather than part 61.

There are some cool parts, as in our piper warriors have MELs which you won't find on too many GA aircraft. Plus, they teach a bit more in ground school than they do at part 61 schools.

I'm not dissing either sides, but UND has a tendency to take the fun out of flying. With so many "you can't do this, you can't do that" which is diffrent than what the FAA says about GA pilots.

Just my two cents

[Jeffery Williams 849847]

I will tell you that you do get more at these places than you will get at a Part 61 school, as my roommate complains all the time about how he has to know so much more for a part 121 rather than part 61.

Just my two cents

 

Well, having trained at a Part 61 school and now flying Part 121 I would have to disagree. When you are hired to fly in a 121 environment the airline is going to train you to use their own procedures. Very few (if any) of the SOP's and such that you may have used to simulate being an airline pilot in a Cessna 172 are going to be of any use to you, as such things vary drastically from company to company and from airplane to airplane.

 

With that being said, I'm not really ragging so much on UND here. I think their program is at least affordable and respected.

[Daniel Shaw 947202]

Ok, first of all I wanted to correct a common misconception about the Aeronautical Science degree from ERAU. It is NOT exclusively about becoming a pilot. It is a general eduation degree, with a concentraion in the professional world of aviation. We take in depth courses about aerodynamics, aviation business, turbine maintenance, aircraft systems and components, and electonic navigation, just to name a few. These courses are designed to give us, as Aeronautical Science majors a back up foundation should we lose our medical. It gives us some familiarization with all of the other facets of the industry.

 

Now back to the topic at hand...

 

As far as a VATSIM club at ERAU, I am the current Vice President.

 

The organization that was formely known as the Online Aeronautical [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociation (OAA) was, according to the student activities department, inactive since fall of 2004. So, myself and the current President, Chris Vincent, took control of the charter, reactivated the club, rewrote the constitution, and are in the process of rebuilding it. Let me first of all specifiy that the organization, while promoting the use of VATSIM and hositng our major events on VATSIM, is about all types of flight simulation as well as the air traffic side of it.

As far as the university supporting VATSIM, the truth is, most of the faculty here have no idea it exists. They are not aware of Virtual Airlines, they are not aware of Sqwak Box, FSInn, or any of the payware aircraft such as the LDS or the PMDG, or any of the add on scenery, activesky, or anything. That is one of the things we hope to change.

Our faculty advisor is a gentlemen we dug up after browsing around with some of our favorite professors. He received his Doctorate, and did his thesis on Flight Simulation. He was unaware of the existence of anything that we are so enthusiastic about until just last week when Chris and I demonstrated VATSIM to him with our laptops, one controlling and one flying. To say the least, he was speechless. His main question was "Why was this created?" He was shocked that our answer was simply "For fun... no one makes money off of the use of VATSIM." I cannot say much more than that at this time because the organization is still in its beginning phases, we have not even had a public meeting as yet, but our advisor has made it expressly clear that he has big things planned for this technology, and is going to have us demonstrate it for a few more faculty members. He thinks that we can implement it as part of our training here, and I for one am totally supportive.

 

That's my 2 cents worth. Ya'll have a good one.

 

Dan

[Andrew Doubleday]

Dan,

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

-AJ