need to call if VFR in Class E airspace?

[Keith Smith]

David,

 

That is very interesting, thx for posting it. It's a bit of an edge case, though, as it only applies if the airport is IMC, in which case, there really shouldn't be any VFR guys flying through that Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E extension in any case (unless the airport is IMC but the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E is VMC...that's gotta be a reallllly rare situation)

 

The reason I had said "no they can't" in my reply was because non-participating aircraft are under no obligation to contact the tower to be in that airspace to begin with. It seems that the message you posted they have addressed this. They've come up with the marvelous strategy that if you call, you might be denied, but if you don't call, you're allowed to go through it

 

That's a slight over simplification on my part. People transitioning through or near the Delta typically WILL be in touch with the tower, so I guess it makes sense. What they're relying on, I suppose, is the FAR that says that aircraft will obey all ATC instructions. If they instruct you to remain outside of the airspace, that constitutes an instruction.

 

Legally, you could comply with that instruction, leave the area, request freq change, then loiter in the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E extension all you like, AFAIK.

 

Is it smart to hang around an approach corridor in marginal VFR conditions? no.

Safe, no?

Reasonable? Not really...why would you need to?

Interesting to discuss? Absolutely!

[David Baker 1004102]

Very interesting to discuss.

 

Apparently this happens regularly at this airport where fog comes off the ocean and obscures the airport but the E extension which is 4 miles away is still VMC.

 

On topic:

 

There is absolutely no need for a VFR to be in contact with ATC in cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E airspace.

 

What do you guys do when there's someone in E heading for a D like no tomorrow?

 

I usually wait until they actually bust it to send the contactme. The result of this is that by the time they actually call, they are either on the ground or through the delta and out the other side.

 

I feel silly then and usually just say, "Umm... you were in the Delta which requires communications but now your out of it again. Monitor unicomm 122.8"

[Dennis Whitley 952478]

The unfortunate side of this is, and this has been discussed time after time in our Instructor Recert cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]es, and has caused more discussion between ATC and Pilots than a VATSIM Forum can hold a candle to:

 

A RW student pilot, or even private pilot, gets close to a Clas B, picks up the mic, and ask for flight following. Depending on the ARTCC, or the work load, ATC usually comes back with, "squawk 1200, remain clear of the cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B" . This is not much help to either party. Usually, the poor pilot may be in hazy conditions, or lost, but not willing to admit it. He/She gets rejected, and ends up on the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B anyway. However, on the flip side, more experienced pilots can safely and freely navigate the arispace with interferring with busy ATC conditions.

 

D

[Alan Hensley 950569]

Dennis, if you wanted to fly under the cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] "D" airspace at the towers I worked at you would have needed to take the subway.

[Dennis Whitley 952478]

5 SM and 3000 ft. I know the game, but you can circle Atlanta Stadium just up the road all you want

Sorry, 5 SM up to and but including 3000' The one foot argument will also go on forever.

 

 

D

[Joe Caban 844086]

5 SM and 3000 ft. I know the game, but you can circle Atlanta Stadium just up the road all you want

Sorry, 5 SM up to and but including 3000' The one foot argument will also go on forever.

 

 

D

 

 

Not anymore D, there's a 1 SM ring around it that falls under the whole homeland security TFR. but yes, VFR can be that close to ATL without comms because the bravo shelf for FTY is at 3500 in that layer. They can even fly underneathe ALL 3 very busy finals outside the Outer Marker at 2000 or below. The ILS glideslope at this point is 600 and 800 feet above these guys and it goes on every day all day long... Why we aren't allowed to do it on VATSIM without getting kicked I have yet to figure out.

[Dennis Whitley 952478]

Unknown to most, and unspoken, RW Atlanta has a gentleman's agreement with the pilots. If you know the little secrets, there are a lot of places they don't enforce. PDK is a good one. You can fly over PDK, and below the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B all day long, but most think you have to give ATC a call.

 

It's kind like SVFR. It's crazy to believe that you can fly in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B with 1 mile and clear of clouds. But it's the best tool a ferry pilot ever had

 

D

[Joe Caban 844086]

The bravo over PDK stops at 5,000/8,000 and the D only goes to 3,000 lol. Of course you can be non-participant VFR.