Stephen Sculley-Beaman Posted June 21, 2008 at 02:48 PM Posted June 21, 2008 at 02:48 PM Teaching is about delivering content to students in such a way as to keep them engaged and interested. If you start to bore them, they'll never learn anything. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Wollenberg 810243 Posted June 22, 2008 at 08:53 AM Posted June 22, 2008 at 08:53 AM After that, and upon finding Keith’s picture *grin* What...this one? Bryan Wollenberg ZLA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Stjepanovic 963114 Posted June 22, 2008 at 10:47 AM Posted June 22, 2008 at 10:47 AM Controllers have feelings too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Smith Posted June 22, 2008 at 03:44 PM Author Posted June 22, 2008 at 03:44 PM (edited) Matthew, I can absolutely understand the point you're making. At its foundation, the article is truly attempting to help people avoiding the mistakes we see on a nightly basis. Many of our controllers have been doing this for years, and have been saying the same thing for years on the frequency to try to help pilots do things the right way. I am truly sorry that you perceived the article to be elitist and made the prospect of flying in ZLA something other than a pleasant one. That is honestly not the intent of the article. I wouldn't spend the amount of time crafting reference material if it wasn't an attempt to HELP pilots. If you take the dry humor out of it, you're left with one INCREDIBLY dull docomeent with some useful information scattered throughout. The humor is there to help ppl wade through the volume of information, and hopefully increase the chances that they will read it end to end. The more they read and digest, the better they are likely to do in the future. I also find it easier to write articles if I'm having fun doing so at the time. It's not easy to strike a balance between that kind of humor and possibly alienating a small number of people. I truly didn't mean to do that, but at the same time, I do stand by the messages in the article. If there are specific sentences that stand out as being 'turn offs,' then please PM me and I will consider changing them. If you maintain that the entire article has a tone that you find off-putting, then we will have to agree to disagree, and I hope that you will 'take a risk' by flying in ZLA and see that the controllers really do try to help. Edit: I re-read your messages again, Matt. It seems that you do already understand that this is trying to help ppl out, you're saying that it might not be an effective way to do so. That's fair enough. I maintain that the message drummed home by the article is that pilots need to READ the charts for the procedures they are flying. This is by no means an advanced concept, or an unreasonable request, particularly when the effects of not doing so (during a busy event, for example) are so adverse. The sarcasm in the article continually brings home that point, well, that and that some ZLA controllers might have suicidal tendencies Keith Edited June 22, 2008 at 07:10 PM by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Williams 877539 Posted June 22, 2008 at 06:51 PM Posted June 22, 2008 at 06:51 PM Keith, I think your message is perfect. The sarcasm really addresses a single point and drives home that point - "read the chart." It does so far more effectively in my opinion than "pretty, pretty please read the chart." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted June 22, 2008 at 09:26 PM Posted June 22, 2008 at 09:26 PM Matt, You of all people know how much of a pain it is when the same people make the same mistakes repetitively... it happened at Chicago all of the time (and simply telling them on frequency did little to help). Lets not forget your posts on these very forums regarding the SAYRS arrival issues. Believe me when I say this, you're jumping the gun with your opinion here surely... if you knew KS (had a conversation on team speak with him or even MSN/AIM), you'd know this isn't designed to be snobby or elitist in any way. I couldn't think of a better way to go about highlighting pilot issues than creating a docomeent like this... The best learning environment you can create is one where you point out mistakes and attempt to find a way to help pilots fix them and keep them entertained at the same time (thats the best teaching method, in my opinion anyhow - I only could wish I had the wit KS has)... I couldn't think of a better way to do it than what KS has done here... and this isn't the first time either. There are tons of articles on the ZLA site, written by many individuals, myself included, to help improve the quality of the facility and help pilots learn how to do things correctly. I'd invite you to come fly with us in ZLA, but from my conversations with you and you're attitude towards this facility, it's pretty apparent your opinion on us is already formed (judging the book by its cover). Fortunately, the traffic levels here seem to prove you otherwise... we must be doing something right down here, no? Maybe when you finally set your opinions aside you'll come fly the airspace a bit, maybe give the ZLA pilot training program a shot down the road, read some of the articles on the site, and spend some time in the airspace and you'll find how much of a treat it really can be to fly down here... and how much it can improve your abilities as a pilot and controller. Then maybe you'll understand why I wanted to apply some of the very same techniques to Chicago to help improve things there... Sincere Regards, AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted June 22, 2008 at 09:37 PM Posted June 22, 2008 at 09:37 PM Just stumbled upon this one... http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=30734&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Read through the press releases on the site (most, if not all, written by KS) and you should be able to quickly pick up on his personality... not to mention you'll probably find yourself rolling out of the chair by then end of it. if not well then I'm truly sorry because you'd certainly be the first person I met who couldn't see the humor in him. I regularly find myself unable to make radio calls during our ZLA VFR flight club flights as he generally has a wise crack about something en-route that manages to get us all into roaring (or crying) laughter over Team Speak... -AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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