How to deal with an emergency from the ATC perspective?

[Ed Tomlinson 1014292]

Can we just keep it in the overriding context of complying with the VATSIM COC, which can be broadly interpreted as a requirement on the community to prevent the inordinate selfish consumption of resources by a single pilot on the network to the detrimental enjoyment of others?

 

With that in mind, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming ATC acceptance, then what other communications, measures, and actions are taken by controllers and pilots alike and in what different circomestances? Some of the ideas presented earlier are ideas I had never considered, like fuel on board, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning a hold. What about landing an alternate airport? How does the number of SOBs factor in?

 

At the risk of being IPOILed ( I pissed on it last ), I would like to say that I am actually interested in the discussion topic of handling flight emergencies.

 

Thanks!

[Bryan Wollenberg 810243]

How does the number of SOBs factor in?

 

[Dan Everette]

How does the number of SOBs factor in?

 

 

Isn't it normally just one?

[ARIEL MAISONET 811274]

I am not sure what is happening and why the flame out, not sure if it was because Dennis wrote something awful, but please, please, can we go back to the topic?

 

Still not sure if the steps I expressed above are correct or not.

 

ariel

 

PS. Please no intention to defend anybody, my intention is to learn the way an emergency should be taken care.

[Andrew Rogers 913862]

How does the number of SOBs factor in?

 

I beleive that has to do with the planing for the worst aspect.. SHould somthing seriously go wrong on the flight. the emergancy crews will know how many lives are in danger.

[Stephen Sculley-Beaman]

Yesterday called. He told me to tell you that he wants his joke back. You've made frivolous lawsuit jokes in most of your posts, recently.... Not picking on you, just picking on you, a little bit.... All in good fun.

 

Any time . When someone irritates me, I tend to be a pain in the rear when it comes to letting go of it

 

Anyways, sorry for hijacking the thread Ariel.

 

I agree with Andrew

[Lakhbir Singh 936840]

Cue the "little teapot" music:

 

I'm an Internet Troll

Short and stout,

Here is my keyboard, here is my mouse

When I get all steamed up, watch me reply

Just let me mis-quote and click submit

 

Be careful....you might have a team of slander-seeking lawyers after you!

 

 

good one stephen,

 

 

Lak

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

Please allow my two cents, based on both real world and online simulation experience, and ignoring personal points so as to focus on the situation at hand ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming it is an engine loss after takeoff in a p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]enger transport aircraft). First I'll refer to real world aspects and later add network constraints:

1. Real world

Two options: a. The captain has decided to land as soon as practicable. ATC should give the aircraft priority and provide whatever [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance he can offer. Even in a busy airport and with the subject aircraft about to land on the opposite runway, there should be no meaningful disruption for other traffic. One exception is if the only usable runway would become blocked for an extended period by that aircraft after landing, which for said emergency is unlikely. That sums the problems and solutions pretty much.

 

b. In the event the aircraft needs to reduce gross weight for landing, he would [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume the role of an arriving aircraft [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to hold, with priority. ATC should [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign holding instructions and request estimated duration for arrival scheduling and separation.

 

2. Network simulation aspects:

a. No real life risk.

b. Possible ATC position under-staffing, for which COR 8B applies.

 

c. ATCO's should attempt to make the most out of the evolving situation for their practice benefit, and stay realistic whenever possible in handling the emergency as in real life, for the benefit of all others, ATC and pilots alike. I have never ever asked a pilot to cancel an emergency, and managed to expedite the flow of all traffic while providing all possible [Mod - Happy Thoughts]itance to affect a safe emergency approach and landing. It is an attitude.

[ARIEL MAISONET 811274]

I like to share this anecdote…

 

About five months ago I had this experience. I was working Atlanta center, a traffic departed for Heathrow-London and when he was p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing Macon Regional Airport, he declared an emergency for an engine lost.

 

I asked the pilot if he wanted to return to the airport and he said, yes but I need to waste fuel first, Can I hold at Macon? I told him “Roger, hold at Macon and let me know when you are ready to returnâ€

[John Cierpial 1008209]

More than likely the pilot didnt know how to use the jettison system. Either that or he departed ATL with 100% fuel in all tanks

[Bo Gercke 845743]

Now my question is; Does it is necessary to stay airborne for three hours just to waste enough fuel to come back?

 

ariel

 

Yes.... I had a KC-10 in Diego Garcia dump 280,000 lbs of gas into the Indian Ocean one night when he took off and lost an engine. We put him way out over the water away from the island, and told him to call me when he was ready to come back. It may not have been 3, but it was at least an hour and a half before he called me back. Again, this is real world.

[Mark Wheeler 983770]

Hey Bo, does the KC-135 have a fuel dump system or do they use the drougue to dump it?

[Bo Gercke 845743]

Hey Bo, does the KC-135 have a fuel dump system or do they use the drougue to dump it?

 

Dumped out of the boom for certain, but not sure if they have a standard dumping system, as well. They dump out of the boom because of the tremendous flow rate out of the boom. Not sure of the rate, but it's a lot. Maybe we have a Boom or Loadie on the forum?

[Ed Tomlinson 1014292]

Here’s what 7110.65 Chapter 9 Special Flights has to say about Fuel Dumping along with Phraseology:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/ATC/Chp9/atc0904.html

 

...

PHRASEOLOGY-

ATTENTION ALL AIRCRAFT.

FUEL DUMPING IN PROGRESS OVER (location) AT (altitude) BY (type aircraft) (flight direction).

 

b. Broadcast a terminating advisory when the fuel dumping operation is completed.

 

PHRASEOLOGY-

ATTENTION ALL AIRCRAFT.

FUEL DUMPING OVER (location) TERMINATED.

...

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

All tanker refueling probes I know incorporate a mechanical valve, which prevents fuel outflow when not connected to a receiving aircraft refueling receptacle. This is to prevent fuel spraying nearby receiving aircraft during unintentional disconnects.

 

Hey Bo, does the KC-135 have a fuel dump system or do they use the drougue to dump it?

 

Dumped out of the boom for certain, but not sure if they have a standard dumping system, as well. They dump out of the boom because of the tremendous flow rate out of the boom. Not sure of the rate, but it's a lot. Maybe we have a Boom or Loadie on the forum?

[Bo Gercke 845743]

All tanker refueling probes I know incorporate a mechanical valve, which prevents fuel outflow when not connected to a receiving aircraft refueling receptacle. This is to prevent fuel spraying nearby receiving aircraft during unintentional disconnects.

 

 

You know a tanker refueling probe? Wow... I've always wanted to meet one of those... Yo, hook me up!

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

I know probes and drogues, both have devices to prevent fuel from flowing if not connected. On the Hercs the overboard values were located in the wing tips outboard of the ailerons.

[Opher Ben Peretz 882232]

I performed a couple of developmental projects, both off of C-130Hs fitted for aerial refuleing. The first increased the refueling gross weight of the C/HH53-C, from its USAF certified 38,050 Lb to 42,000, during which we refueled up to a gross weight of 45,000 Lb, dark night, tanker and receiver without any external lights. The second was an F-4E mini-probe installation (originally equiped with the standard USAF system incorporating a receptacle mounted behind the cockpits). Same visual conditions, using the radar.

p.s. Congrats to Boeing for reopening the tanker tender.

 

All tanker refueling probes I know incorporate a mechanical valve, which prevents fuel outflow when not connected to a receiving aircraft refueling receptacle. This is to prevent fuel spraying nearby receiving aircraft during unintentional disconnects.

 

 

You know a tanker refueling probe? Wow... I've always wanted to meet one of those... Yo, hook me up!

[Anthony Klein 940568]

In real world, when you declare an emergancy. Your cleared to do pretty much anything you want to get the plane down safely. You will usually get a cleared to land any runway.

 

The ATC will most definatly not try to work you into their picture..lol sorry had to laugh at that one. In the real world the entire airport will pretty much stop if there is an emergancy landing happening. You will get a cleared to land any runway and they will stop everything to make sure they are all clear for you.

 

If you dont declare an emergancy of course they will try to get you down as fast as they can but they wont stop everything for you, declaring an emergancy is just that. It means if they dont get down soon they are going to crash.

 

On VATSIM however, you can declare an emergnacy and it goes pretty much the same as real world except the controller has the ability to tell you to stop simulating the emergancy. Usually perhaps its an event and your emergancy may bring the event to a complete halt etc. We are "Simulating" flying here this isnt real world, and if your emergancy is ruining everyone elses fun then sorry but you need to cut it out. Most of the time its not big deal, but imagine a major event and 7-8 people start declaring emergancies... it can get out of hand and unrealistic quickly.