What is happening to Atlanta?

[Ryan Strad 827369]

Can someone give the accurate amount of hours it takes to re-certify?

 

It sounds like to me a couple of people are P/Oed about having to train again after being certified for years (Their pride is hurt) that they are fussing in the main VATUSA Forum instead of respecting the leadership's decision or using email.

 

David,

 

I don't think anyone know's the amount of time it takes to fully re-certify because as far as I know any of the guys who were once fully certified (excluding the current staff) were able to fully re-certify at Atlanta and have already now become inactive or transfered out. This is partly due to training being backed up and people not agreeing with the new procedures. There were many more than just us on the forum who did not agree with all the changes but they have all already given up and left.

 

Controllers have the right to speak out against any decision the leadership makes. If we did not, how would the leadership know if we agree with what they are doing or not. Like it was said before, if Martin Luther King Jr or Rosa Parks never spoke up, where would we all be today?

 

Also email, chat, teamspeak have all be used to contact staff without any results. I have even emailed VATUSA without receiving response or confirmation that my email was even received. I am currently trying to get re certified under these new procedures however it is currently almost impossible to obtain training. Hopefully this will change soon as I am currently in contact with the ATM at ZTL via email and we will see what happens with my training.

 

When I made my first post I was not "fussing". I was answering the posters question "What is happening to Atlanta?" I posted what I thought is what is happening at Atlanta and I am entitled to that. Just as everyone else is also entitled to post their own opinions about what they think is happening at Atlanta and I respect that. I hope that everyone else can respect everyone elses opinion.

[Ryan Strad 827369]

Of course you didn’t lose anything, because you were certified to work “Delâ€

[ARIEL MAISONET 811274]

There are controllers controlling in Atlanta. I see them on BHM tower and APP all the time.

 

Kudos to those gentlemen for just getting to the business of controlling while they work on meeting the ARTCC requirements.

 

This situation is not uncommon in the world of VATUSA. Every ATM that implements changes which require re-certification ends up with a group that's willing to do the work and a group that's not. And thus it goes until the next ARTCC drama.

 

Story of my experience... couldn't have said it better WW... thank you.

 

Also, grandfathering in policy flat-out doesn't work on VATSIM (I learned that the hard way as well). As far as the comments go towards it not being realistic to decertify people in the FAA... well, where in the FAA do you have m[Mod - Happy Thoughts] groups of controllers stepping out and complaining (as on these very forums) about new policy being implemented? They suck it up and deal with it because everyone knows what happened back in 1981... As much as I may disagree with half of what the FAA does, still... lets put this in perspective, please.

 

 

Dan, also appreciate your comments, no reason you should have ever had to come here in the first place to post them. As I've said in your forums previously, best of luck to you guys. I couldn't make it happen at Chicago... I sure hope like hell you guys can there. A little realism in procedures never hurt anyone... and it sure as hell is 90 percent perception, excellent comment. It's a shame some people are so closed minded about it... shut 'em out and surround yourself with motivated people that support you and you're ideas. That's all I've got...

 

 

-AJ

 

Actually I don’t see why not grandfathering; what is wrong with that? Is an offense to grandfather someone?

 

Some people attacks those of us who are upset by the changes using the “grandfatheringâ€

[ARIEL MAISONET 811274]

Also, grandfathering in policy flat-out doesn't work on VATSIM (I learned that the hard way as well). As far as the comments go towards it not being realistic to decertify people in the FAA... well, where in the FAA do you have m[Mod - Happy Thoughts] groups of controllers stepping out and complaining (as on these very forums) about new policy being implemented? They suck it up and deal with it because everyone knows what happened back in 1981... As much as I may disagree with half of what the FAA does, still... lets put this in perspective, please.

-AJ

 

Yes and they get payments, we don’t; this is to have fun, not to put the Berlin Wall at the front of the members and make things harder; what fun is that to old members?

[Steve Ogrodowski 876322]

Can someone give the accurate amount of hours it takes to re-certify?

 

It sounds like to me a couple of people are P/Oed about having to train again after being certified for years (Their pride is hurt) that they are fussing in the main VATUSA Forum instead of respecting the leadership's decision or using email. Rolling Eyes

 

Speaking generally: If the procedures haven't changed terribly, it could take a matter of one to three hours for all positions. If procedures, for whatever reason, are quite a bit different than they used to be, it would probably take several days (anywhere from two days to a couple weeks).

[Dan McCabe 898634]

Of course you didn’t lose anything, because you were certified to work “Delâ€

[Justin A. Martin]

...well, where in the FAA do you have m[Mod - Happy Thoughts] groups of controllers stepping out and complaining (as on these very forums) about new policy being implemented? They suck it up and deal with it because everyone knows what happened back in 1981... As much as I may disagree with half of what the FAA does, still... lets put this in perspective, please...

 

Actually AJ, this is not completely true. Look at the real-world PCT website. There are a few posts on there how "FAA Screwed us over again with the new STARs/DPs." It's fair to say that they have many more negative posts on there than positive.

 

Sorry to bring it off topic.

 

JM

[Yusuf Pulatov 1054147]

we may want to close this thread, its getting out of hand

[ARIEL MAISONET 811274]

Ariel-

In all respect, you don't have a dog in this fight (sorry for stealing your phrase Jeff). Please refrain from spreading lies within this forum, lies that we can dispute easily. This doesn't need to become a personal battle, and I would ask you to act like an adult and prevent it from becoming so.

 

Lies???

 

What kind of leader you are that you call lies the fact that I have told you and Alan at least twice and asked why we can’t continue controlling on off-event-periods, several times? Probably you are short minded.

 

Did I make posting requesting the above on the ATL forum? Nope, probably you erased them as you did with many of my threads.

 

If I am telling lies then why all this people (including controllers of Atlanta) are coming here and you are coming too to wash your face in front of the forum?

 

It’s not true and a fact that only 10 guys are certified and only one is not from the staff? And that is Eric Fisher?

 

It’s not true that Eric was trained before you came to the show? You are talking about him like if he did his recertification during your time; but if I don’t recall incorrect, he was certified before you and Alan came into the game; he was certified by Joe Caban. Weird that Joe never asked us to drop off Center while he was the ATM, nor Mike Stagg the former DATM (he neither can’t control because he lose his certification too probably that is why he went out); Alan Hensley did the dirty work and you played his game.

 

You know this is true.

 

You asked why to bring all this here into this public forum and here is the answer; because you are too powerful on the ZTL forum and you change, erase and delete all thread from anyone that differs from you and your staff. You are the only ATM that I have to deal with that does this and allow his staff to do it as well; all the other respects all their members’ postings even if those are not in favor to them.

 

ATL was a public forum as well as this on VATSIM, but you change it to your likely; and if somebody says the true you banned him from the forum.

 

I have the copy of the posting made by Joe Caban and my posting reacting against his use of hard and awful words against one Atlanta member that was only posting his thoughts and ideas. I have to react to the abuse about those answers and I was very clear about it and I didn’t use fowl language only my thoughts for justice; I did even suggest that the staff should do something about it and what you did? Instead of call your staff and tell them to ease the things, you banned me from the forum. If you want I can post it here so everybody see what kind of answers are those from the Operation Manager; anyway many people knows the way Joe Caban answers; he is always using hard tone and awful words to every one that differs from him too.

 

So please don’t say I am lying and accept the true!

 

I will make you a prophecy: If you don’t change that aptitude and understand that we are all here to have fun that this is not a job, you won’t have the splendid Atlanta that you trying to build. You need to respect your controllers those that agree with you and those that does not agree with you, at the end they will to do what you say if you are smart and use best bed manners with them.

 

regards!

[Dan McCabe 898634]

Well, I'm not going to make this a back and forth match between Ariel and myself...that isn't what this forum was intended for and that isn't my job as ATM.

 

I will however tell anybody reading this post right now...

 

I invite any of you to come join or visit vZTL and see for yourselves just how hard these guys work to make things fair and fun. All we ask is that you show up ready to have a good time and ready to learn something new.

 

 

I'll say it again, you can't please them all, and Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Andrew Doubleday]

Amen.

[Joe Caban 844086]

politics politics^^^^^^^

 

 

Fact #1 : EVERY controller had a 6 month period to recertify WHILE holding their old certification. That period was extended 2 more months by Dan, for a total of 8 months.

 

Fact #2 : There have been 12 recerts of old center controllers and EVERY center recertification that has been done has taken less than 6 hours.

 

Fact #3 : Those complaining haven't tried. Effort is essential and six hours is not a drop compared to the time these guys spent controlling as a visitor or flying online. When I was the ATM, that was one of the numbers I checked if I got a complaint from someone to see if the complaint was justifiable.

 

Fact #4 : There seems to be alot of misinformation being circulated here. The fact is no one here is discussing facts.

[ARIEL MAISONET 811274]

politics politics^^^^^^^

 

 

Fact #1 : EVERY controller had a 6 month period to recertify WHILE holding their old certification. That period was extended 2 more months by Dan, for a total of 8 months.

 

Fact #2 : There have been 12 recerts of old center controllers and EVERY center recertification that has been done has taken less than 6 hours.

 

Fact #3 : Those complaining haven't tried. Effort is essential and six hours is not a drop compared to the time these guys spent controlling as a visitor or flying online. When I was the ATM, that was one of the numbers I checked if I got a complaint from someone to see if the complaint was justifiable.

 

Fact #4 : There seems to be alot of misinformation being circulated here. The fact is no one here is discussing facts.

 

We’ve tried Joe. Ryan has tried. Benjamin does not have the time, neither Jeffery, Victor Gomez, Dennis and the list continue.

 

Perhaps you don’t know this since you are not coming online too often, but to answer postings...

 

...Alan Hensley know the following is true; I took the training; I went during an hour with Wyatt Ranking about the Departure position, that was two months ago; I then went with Matt Healy for approach almost for two hours if my mind is correct; then when I was ready to be certified for approach, Matt went down to Alan office on TS and when he came back he told me “you are fine, but Alan said he will do all OTS from now onâ€

[Scott Johnston 890281]

Ariel, when you were on teamspeak, was Alan there? Why didn't you talk to him? It's not his job to hold your hand, you need to take some initiative if you want to get things done.