ZOB Traffic

[Kyle Vander Ark 1027773]

This is just a curious question. Last night I was controlling a Minor Facility for ZTL. (BHM_TWR). I kept seeing a broadcast message from Nick at CLE_CTR. Saying a lot of things I had no idea what meant. The only things I recognized were (DTW Ground Stop in Effect) and (DTW is Metering). Im making this post to just ask can you clarify what exactly was going on... I didnt know what the GI T1 T2 T3 meant either. Thanks.

[James McMannamy]

Sounds like traffic management initiatives at DTW . . . I didn't see the messages in question, but I'd guess GI was that it was a general information message, and T1, T2, T3 would be the address of the sector/controllers affected by the GI message. Other ones having to do with TMI's are ESP/DSP/CFR messages, meaning an aircraft would have to be released by the center before it departed, or an EDCT program which doesn't require a center release, but the aircraft has to depart +/- 5 mins from the EDCT time given. All of these initiatives are based on the arrival rate of the airport in question based on available runways, airspace, etc...

[Kyle Vander Ark 1027773]

Thanks for the reply James, Thats what I was guessing because they were also listing different ARTCC's that were being effected during this time. They provided a time for departure and so on. I was asking because I was tower at a minor facility like I said and im only a S1 and I wanted to know what to do if I had an aircraft departing towards DTW or the ZOB ARTCC. Thanks again.

[James McMannamy]

Generally speaking, metering (CFR/ESP/DSP - the same name for different programs, depending on which ARTCC you're in) are typically for airports within your ARTCC or surrounding ARTCCs to meet flow rates into an airport. Sometime's they'll cover a larger area (a GRB departure has an ESP for LGA, EWR, and JFK, for example), but usually they are smaller. EDCTs, on the other hand, are a national program for specific airports or entire chunks of airspace. They're usually less restrictive (time-wise), but they affect airplanes departing anywhere, not just nearby ARTCCs.

 

To make it even more confusing, there can be ESPs and EDCTs at the same time. I remember SCT and ZLA TMUs tried to keep the CFR times within the EDCT times, but ZAU TMU disregards the EDCTs all the time when there is an ESP to that airport.

 

So if there is metering at DTW for specific ARTCCs, someone departing LAX may have no delay, but someone departing CLE will have to meet a flow time.

[Kyle Vander Ark 1027773]

Yeah that makes sense. Thanks.

[Justin A. Martin]

Those messages were an attempt at realism, however a GND stop at DTW was probably not necessary... these are things that are probably not too necessary, but I am not sure of the circomestances they were used.

 

Justin

[Jody Turner 1018734]

Looking at vataware for the past few weeks at DFW, the most amount of traffic they had was 137 in a day (August 2nd), so I agree with Justin, a ground stop was most likely unnecessary.

[Justin A. Martin]

DTW (Detroit), not DFW (Dallas-Fort Worth). Also, this night there was a DVA fly-in, but there was not enough traffic to require any of the messages sent. No ground stops were necessary IMHO nor were MIT.

 

Justin

[Jim Johnson 814050]

Also, this night there was a DVA fly-in, but there was not enough traffic to require any of the messages sent. No ground stops were necessary IMHO nor were MIT.

 

I guess that's your decision to make when you're the one controlling. Otherwise, I would hesitate to question the decision of other controllers who were actually working the sectors involved. Sometimes it doesn't take all that much traffic to fill a sector, especially if you throw in several pilots who are having difficulty complying with instructions.

[Justin A. Martin]

I was actually trying to split CTR when the controller involved said it wasn't busy enough to... after the event there were approx. 4-6 aircraft in the airspace with the 3 major APPs online and the messages were still being sent through the ATC channel... the controller involved is a good one, as well as a real-world one, but I just didn't see the need for these stops and remarks... this isn't real-world and no matter how hard we want to simulate it we NEED to create boundaries.

 

Justin

[Nicholas Fredrich 827138]

I tend to shy away from these forums so, I apologize for the late reply.

 

It was a poor attempt at realism with a hidden message to some ARTCCs that I noticed are attempting to start a TMU program.

 

That message is simple: "It will never work on VATSIM" for exactly the reasons stated above. As realistic as VATSIM may seem to some people, it only scratches the surface of the realworld, which is why we call it a game (or as others would rather refer to it as a hobby / simulation).

 

JM- Thanks for explaining the CDT/DSP and EDCT times you hit it right on brother. How's the FAA treating you out in GRB?