ATC should be used to text message

[Jean-Francois De Lamotte 1]

Dear Controlers friend,

 

i'm writing today to all of you as a pilot.

 

I had this experience today flying in one of our country and having trouble to understand the controller that were online. My english is not that bad but sometime it is really hard to understand on the network for a lot of reason. And today I have been requesting by voice and text to get text message on top of voice without any luck unfortunatly.

 

i'm also controlling in France and we ( I can speak for all my French colleagues ) are trying to speak englis as much as we can and I'm personnaly texting any of my message if I get no answer or if I think that I may be not understanded by the pilot.

 

I' m asking all controller on the network to do the same. Not all the pilot have the same english level and text is always usefull in this case.

 

So next time a pilot is not replying or asking you to text , please do it so and the pilot and controllers life will be much more easy.

 

thank for you understanding.

 

Jeff ( French Pilot and Controller ).

[Mike Sweeney]

Hi Jeff,

 

I think there is only one prerequisite for the ATC to use text (in english). They need to know the callsign of the aircraft. If the pilot can manage to convey their callsign in english or (en francais), that will be the best starting point for communications.

 

If the controller doesn't know the callsign, they don't know who is trying to contact them nor where the aircraft is (or even if in their airspace).

 

There is an easy solution to this, the pilot may use text to transmit their callsign. Then ATC ~should~ respond via text.

 

Hope this suggestion is helpful and thanks for sharing this request. Greatly appreciated.

[Ewan Douglas 899831]

I am a controller at EGBB, if I get a pilot who has trouble understanding english, I ask him to pub it on his flight plan, so ATC's will know that he may have a little trouble understanding, if they do that, then everyone will be happy

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

Any ATC, or pilot, who refuses to use text when requested, please .wallop for a SUP who will address it.

 

Text is today one of the two allowed, supported and expected ways to communicate between ATC and aircraft.

 

Any ATC or pilot who refuses to provide services or will not respond to text should sign off the network until such time as they will comply voluntarily.

 

There are no exceptions.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Indeed, thats why aliases should be practiced on a regular basis.

It's actually pretty fun sometimes speeding through all the aliases from one pilot to another.

[Phillip Speer]

Sebastian's right. A good alias file allows text comms to be so much quicker and easier than voice a lot of the time.

 

Phillip

[Ivan Kovacevic 920456]

Kyle, can you please clarify something for me: Is a controller required to send every message on text AND voice simultaneously to pilots who request it? I hope not!

 

There's one thing when a person uses text only (if they don't have a sound card, speakers, family members sleeping in the next room, hearing disability...), and a completely different thing if a person wants text and voice at the same time. Article 1.01A of the Code of Regulations does state that all members should know English, and while some leeway has been given, flying in foreign airspace without the basic understanding of English is the definition of "looking for trouble".

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

if a pilot cant understand what i just told him for whatever reason it may be, i have no problem repeating it on text, doesnt take much time to do. id rather repeat myself once then having to repeat 10 times because he/she cant understand what im saying or just having voice issues.

 

if they still cant understand what was sent on text, thats something theyre going to have to work out on theyre own time

 

this is actually a common error i see lots of controllers make. they fail to revert to text for instances like this and just end up clogging themselfs up. the tools are there to use to your advantage

 

if a pilot wants both at the same time, thats a seperate issue, if they ask for both, i only do one or the other, i can use that time to talk to more then one pilot

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

Kyle, can you please clarify something for me: Is a controller required to send every message on text AND voice simultaneously to pilots who request it? I hope not!

 

There's one thing when a person uses text only (if they don't have a sound card, speakers, family members sleeping in the next room, hearing disability...), and a completely different thing if a person wants text and voice at the same time. Article 1.01A of the Code of Regulations does state that all members should know English, and while some leeway has been given, flying in foreign airspace without the basic understanding of English is the definition of "looking for trouble".

 

First question; no. The controller should give them ATC in the requested format but both doesn't add any value. The exception is those who will receive voice but want to respond in text, but even then a single person isn't using both redundantly.

 

The need to know English and foreign airspace part is more complex to answer. First, from a seat in the USA it is easy to think this obvious, but a lot of members aren't sitting an English speaking country and it is not so obvious to them. A French pilot flying within France will probably use French, and the controller will probably respond in French. For the most part you see this worldwide with most everyone switching to English only if an English only speaker shows up in the pattern, but that is pretty rare. Any non English speaker in the pattern would get help from those who do with regard to p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing info the the English only pilot.

 

The real winners are those who have command of two or more languages.

 

Notice I haven't said you have to use English if you are flying in non-English speaking airspace? The CoR says that English should be used in most cases, but given our international nature as a single organization we will not lean on a person speaking Farsi if he only flies in Iran, that would be over the top. There are alias lists that exist for ATC and pilots that cover many of the common comms to help in increasing understanding.

 

In the end I would hope that people embrace our diversity in language and culture and take the time to make the communications successful without demeaning or otherwise attacking another party. This place is about learning and enjoyment before it is about 'as real as it gets'. Lift each other up and increase the capacity of VATSIM.

[Martin Loxbo]

this is actually a common error i see lots of controllers make. they fail to revert to text for instances like this and just end up clogging themselfs up. the tools are there to use to your advantage

 

I would rather repeat myself once or twice on voice, if that does the job, than revert to text. I find that some pilots are just lazy; instead of saying "say again" (on voice) they will say "can you repeat that on text...", or even worse, just reply with a text message "txt please". When I'm waiting for a voice response the last thing I want is to go looking for text messages.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

when i get those types of request it usually means they cant understand a thing im saying, so wouldnt make much sense to me anyway to try and continue on voice with that pilot if they cant understand what im saying you can force them to continue to try and listen and try and make out whats being said, but dont blame them when they dont respond correctly. ive had many instances where i couldnt understand a controller at all, either the server was acting up or the accent was too heavy for me to make out the words, and yet they still continued trying to call me on voice even after requesting to go text.

 

seems to be some controllers tend to get "offended" somehow when someone asks them to go text with them, i dont know why that is. its an easy request. but then that brings me to the old requirements we used to have of controllers showing they can handle both text and voice levels sufficiently. no longer the case these days in a lot of places. wont get into that here tho

 

its gotten to the point where ive already had to call supervisors and take DCRM action towards 1 controller because for whatever reason he got so "offended" when i couldnt understand him and asked to go text that he pretty much blew up on the radio.

 

its not even controllers alone. ive encountered pilots that will refuse to use text. doesnt matter how much you try and get them on there so you can explain the instruction since they cant understand, theyll refuse to even open the comm box, this is especially more common in FSINN users as they can close it. SB users can still see text even when minimized

[Ivan Kovacevic 920456]

Kyle, I didn't try to emphasize that everyone must use English (note that I mentioned leeway being given in certain circomestances) and certainly, a French pilot flying in France with a French controller on the other side of the wire would be using French to communicate, and that's perfectly fine.

 

But, if a French pilot who knows he can't converse efficiently in English goes and flies in Finland, for example, even before starting the flight - it's obvious issues will arise unless, by some 1:10000 chance, the Finland controller knows French well.

 

I don't mind texting pilots. If I see a new guy struggling, and I need him to understand it the first time, I'll use Voice+Text for the time-critical instructions. But there's a big difference between "not being able to" and "not wanting to" - and the latter doesn't deserve any 'help'.

[Martin Loxbo]

when i get those types of request it usually means they cant understand a thing im saying, so wouldnt make much sense to me anyway to try and continue on voice with that pilot if they cant understand what im saying

Well, there's a difference between a pilot who doesn't hear/undserstand anything you're saying, and someone who gets 95% of what you're saying on voice, but for the other 5% insists on going to text directly. That just increases the workload for no good reason, when just repeating and emphasizing differently on voice would do the job.

 

I find this usually happens when giving a SID, STAR or direct route to a pilot who is not very familiar with the route. If I give "proceed direct Codan", a pilot familiar with the route will know that Codan is CDA VOR. A pilot not that familiar with the name will ask me to repeat, and likely so. They will then get "proceed direct Codan - Charlie Delta Alpha", and for most pilots this is no problem. However, there is a large amount of pilots who after getting the "weird" Codan instruction, wants ATC to go to text straight away, which is just a waste of time when the instruction can easily be repeated on voice instead.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Indeed, and on that note:

pilots when you're flying to an unfamiliar area PLEASE get familiar with the local NAVAIDS, SIDS and STARS, airport config etc.

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

Indeed, and on that note:

pilots when you're flying to an unfamiliar area PLEASE get familiar with the local NAVAIDS, SIDS and STARS, airport config etc.

Or at least with your route....50% of pilots I give direct to part of their route would ask me 2-3 times to confirm and then I have to switch to text to type the fix.

[tom van der elst]

I think the devil's in the details,

i.e if every pilot took the "trouble" to read his/her charts

(yes,those of the destination airfield,I mean!)

béfore takeoff lots of trouble could be avoided.

[Martin Loxbo]

... or look a the next few flight plan pages in the FMS when given a direct route!

[Jonas Eberle]

One thing about English that has not been said yet.

 

Native-speakers, you are often harder to understand for English-school-learners than other school-learners!

 

For me as a only-casual-speaker it is easier to understand Czech ATC than English (I am not even speaking about American...) ATCOs. Native-speakers, try to think about how you pronounce things, and be advised that there are also ICAO recommendations on pronouncement. Those are better fulfilled by the non-Natives. Also natives tend to use less phraseology because they feel so confident with their language and put in a whole of fragments like "and when vacated keep it rolling nice touchdown look out to your right you'll be number one for...".

 

And back to topic: Yes, I am training my alias files If it takes longer for a pilot to readback I try to be in for text.

[Ivan Rado 930030]

All controllers must know that using of English must be the most simple as possible. Just remember: three=not 3 you have to pronounce as tree. Or the niner for example. I think a good controller always using the most easier and only the "must have" words so there is not a

dogma to use English natively or not.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

I always use the aliases for t pilots, and when a v pilots comes, after 5 seconds and no readback: just slip in a little alias.

And Jonas, I agree 100% with you.

[Ivan Rado 930030]

My note talked about the difficulties of understanding voice ATC.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

I know I know... just thought I would have to slip that in

[Ivan Rado 930030]

One point

[Oliver Gruetzmann]

after 5 seconds and no readback: just slip in a little alias.

 

Guess if there is no response, there is a chance that he just did not listen. So: Say it again. I usually repeat twice until reverting to text, but in 95% the pilot reacts on the second call.

 

For me: Text only if nothing else works (voice server messes up, pilot does not speak sufficient english or text pilots (and some other cases)). It's easy to miss a call, guess it happens to everyone. So if no response after 3-5 secs, just repeat.