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Newbie Instrument Question

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Very new to the VATSIM community and and re-connecting with Flight Sim on FSX after some years of downtime. I apologize if this

question is not appropriate for this forum.


I tried out the CRJ-700 default FSX aircraft yesterday for the first time, and was going to attempt an ILS approach (was flying offline for practice). This will show how inexperienced I am, but alas...


The ILS approach I was using was not equipped with DME. The plate I was referencing obviously had distances to the various fixes

listed in terms of distance from a VOR. I tuned the ILS frequency on NAV1 of the CRJ-700, and wanted to track DME with NAV2.


Unfortunately, it appears as if NAV2 on that aircraft isn't equipped with DME. Could this be correct? In a situation where I'm flying an ILS approach without DME and I also wanted to tune DME information from another station, would I be unable to do this? It doesn't seem like tuning the ILS on NAV2 is a viable approach (as the autopilot won't be able to track the localizer...). Am I just being obtuse here, or is there another way I should be doing this? Is the answer to tune NAV2 to each of the intersecting points to determine location? Seems like a lot of work during a busy approach, but that just could be because I'm slow and uncertain still.


Any info would be appreciated. Thanks all!

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Which approach to which airport? That will help us to know whether DME was required for the approach. If required, then the inability to tune your NAV2's DME prohibits you from flying the approach. If not required, then you can fly the approach using crossing fixes. It's more work, as you indicated, but still gets the job done. By the way, when you have the time for it, try to use both DME and VOR to identify fixes on an approach. This will help you to stay ahead of the plane, identify navaid or equipment failures or mistuned radios, and makes fixes easier to identify. For example, some pilots (I'm one of them) find it easier to notice a needle swinging than a DME number clicking. The needle swings, check the DME to see that it jives, fix is identified, do the five T's, repeat.


Some DME readouts have a switch to flip it between reading VOR 1 and VOR 2. Is yours one of those?

ZLA Pilot Certs make your eyes bright, your teeth white, and childbirth a pleasure. Get yours today!
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Hi Adrew,


First you should check if you have switched VOR2 on for the MFD.


However, you might wanna take a look to these Gauges Fix from Alexander Barthel at Avsim:




Readme: "Added VOR 2 ident, bearing and DME to MFD."



Join us in #vatsim @ irc.quakenet.org - the IRC chat for every VATsimmer.

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Oh sweet, thanks guys for the replies.


DME absolutely wasn't required for the approach, and I could have identified the fixes with VOR had I been more proficient. I will definitely continue practicing navigating using both methods. I know this is going to be another dummy question, but when you say the 5 T's, what might that refer to? Sounds handy to know


My main thought was that a modern commercial aircraft just plain must have 2 DMEs...and that I must be doing something wrong or just not finding the right switch. You indicated that I should check if I have switched VOR2 on for the MFD...I think that's the problem, and I'm not seeing a way to do that. The MFD doesn't really have any clickable stuff on it that I can tell...clicking on the display just pops it up into a bigger window. But that download looks like it's right up my alley. I'll try that and see if it displays what I'm looking for.


Thanks again guys for being so helpful to someone who admittedly doesn't have much a clue.

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Hi Andrew,


The five Ts are:


Time, Turn, Twist, Throttle, Talk (some instructors and pilots may argue about the order of the first two Ts; I teach this way for a specific reason, but honestly the order does not make an order of magnitude difference if you know what order you're using and why, but that is fodder for a whole post unto itself)


It's an easy checklist to memorize that helps remind you of everything you should do at every stage during an approach.


For example, take the VOR Runway 23 approach at KLWM. Say you're 15 miles SW of the VOR, and you're cleared to "proceed direct Lawrence, descend and maintain 2,000, cleared full VOR Runway 23 approach, Lawrence." You'd head to KLWM (an IAF) and


Time: No need to time; you need to fly past VELAN (the FAF)

Turn: Yes, to intercept the LWM057 outbound

Twist: Yes, twist your OBS to the LWM057 outbound

Throttle: Adjust as necessary to get to and maintain 2,000

Talk: Only required to report LWM if requested or in non-radar environment


So then you fly a bit past VELAN to start the procedure turn (I generally use 1 minute, depending on the aircraft/groundspeed, and compensating for the wind). Then


Time: Yes, start timing for one minute procedure turn outbound

Turn: Yes, to fly a 012 course

Twist: Yes, you can now twist your OBS to LWM237 (final approach course)

Throttle: Adjust as necessary to get to and maintain 2,000

Talk: No, not required (unless you get the rare request to report procedure turn outbound)


etc. etc. etc.


It's a structured way to ensure you aren't forgetting anything critical during the approach. I teach my students the five Ts for approaches, intercepting and tracking, and for holding.


I've probably already been too long winded on here (sorry). My p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ion for flight instruction is coming through. Hope this helps a bit.





Don Desfosse
Vice President, Membership

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Don gave a fabulous answer to the five T's. I use the order they're more traditionally taught in (Turn Time Twist Throttle Talk), but I agree with Don that the exact order of the first two T's isn't crucial. I only want to add that I find the five T's useful during cruise as well as enroute. Crossing a VOR, Turn. Time (record time of p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]age, which I will use to estimate the time of the next fix, and also to see if I'm running early or late, make sure the wind is treating me alright in terms of gas). Twist. Throttle (if I have been given a "climb/descend after" instruction, for example). And Talk, which would be pretty rare when enroute, and only comes up if non-radar, or reporting in the hold at a clearance limit.


The five T's. They're not just for breakfast anymore.

ZLA Pilot Certs make your eyes bright, your teeth white, and childbirth a pleasure. Get yours today!
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