Roy Evans 1061333 Posted December 4, 2008 at 10:49 AM Posted December 4, 2008 at 10:49 AM Roy, yes some RW flights are descended at high rates, but I have to question if they keep up the high descent rates during final approach segments. That was my point about not being descended in time to avoid high rates of descent at low alts. It's just very difficult to maintain appropriate speeds at high descent rates, and spacing........well forget that too. I keep adequate fuel reserves on board and so that inertia is hard to overcome, even in the sim. Yeah, it's not uncommon to be at flight idle until 1,500 above TDZE in KDEN arriving from the NW and landing S. Roy Evans II ZDV_RE, C1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Swierupski 836988 Posted December 5, 2008 at 01:08 AM Author Posted December 5, 2008 at 01:08 AM Keith, I am motivated to become another one of those 260 ZLA rated pilots! I have to say that the ZLA site has tons of useful (and funny!) lessons that would really sharpen anybody taking the time to study what it offers. Well done to whomever/s designed that. That kind of information is a real opportunity. I did take the time to study the PROFILE lesson and so I have to say THANKS for the point out. I really did learn something. Fred and Roy, again, the level of RW information that is infused into VATSIM is scary good. I really do wish more pilots would be half as educated as the controllers. Great posts! Cheers......Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Caban 844086 Posted December 25, 2008 at 05:26 PM Posted December 25, 2008 at 05:26 PM look, if i am not welcome in these forums you guys need to tell me so i can stop wasting my time. I am sick-n-tired of my posts getting deleted quietly. WTH is wrong with all these power hungry VATSIM staff members? Regards, JX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Atkielski 985811 Posted December 25, 2008 at 06:51 PM Posted December 25, 2008 at 06:51 PM What phraseology should I use if I'd like ATC to clear me to a lower altitude at or beyond a certain point? Can I say "request 8500 crossing Fillmore" or something similar? Asking in advance would give both me and the controller more time to work things out than asking at the last minute when the FMC is complaining that I haven't reset my altitude yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Blackburn Posted December 25, 2008 at 07:20 PM Posted December 25, 2008 at 07:20 PM look, if i am not welcome in these forums you guys need to tell me so i can stop wasting my time. I am sick-n-tired of my posts getting deleted quietly. WTH is wrong with all these power hungry VATSIM staff members? Joe, Given it is Christmas I would imagine very few of us are as active as usual. Drop me a PM with the details - I've certainly no reason to cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] you as not wanted! Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baker 1004102 Posted December 25, 2008 at 07:24 PM Posted December 25, 2008 at 07:24 PM What phraseology should I use if I'd like ATC to clear me to a lower altitude at or beyond a certain point? Can I say "request 8500 crossing Fillmore" or something similar? Asking in advance would give both me and the controller more time to work things out than asking at the last minute when the FMC is complaining that I haven't reset my altitude yet. That phraseology sounds fine to me Anthony. ZMP_BD MITRE OP1 survivor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Steever 810905 Posted December 25, 2008 at 09:42 PM Posted December 25, 2008 at 09:42 PM Approach clears them at 15000 feet for the 25 mile visual approach. Remember that Flight Sim doesn't match RW visual quality. Remember a controller is not able to clear a pilot for a visual app until the pilot announces they have the field in-sight. Hence the word VISUAL. In the writings of the real life pilot he stated that the Airport Beacon Light was clearly visable from his location. WRONG. I've already contacted your TA to review visual approach procedures with you as you have many alternatives to clearing someone for a visual approach. They do not have to have the field in sight before being cleared for it. One example would be if visibility is 7 miles and there is a guy on 5 mile final. you call the aircraft in sight but you are 10 miles out. Cant see the field but can see that guy. You can be cleared for the visual approach following that aircraft as he can see the field. You're being "daisy chained" but it is legit and done in the real world quite a bit. Anthony: simply ask. If there isn't phraseology dont try to make any, that makes things REALLY confusing . In this case there isn't any so.... Joe: come fly ZME. We'll show you how its done "Center, Delta 8110 would like to cross TAMMY at seven thousand" "Delta 8110 Standby" (Center coordinates lower altitude with approach) "Delta 8110 cross TAMMY at 8,000 memphis altimeter 29.92" Controller could also come back with "Delta 8110 Approved as requested" Same thing, just different words. You know what you requested so do it vZME Air Traffic Manager ... --- ... ... --- ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Lewis Posted December 26, 2008 at 06:24 PM Posted December 26, 2008 at 06:24 PM Approach clears them at 15000 feet for the 25 mile visual approach. Remember that Flight Sim doesn't match RW visual quality. Remember a controller is not able to clear a pilot for a visual app until the pilot announces they have the field in-sight. Hence the word VISUAL. In the writings of the real life pilot he stated that the Airport Beacon Light was clearly visable from his location. WRONG. I've already contacted your TA to review visual approach procedures with you as you have many alternatives to clearing someone for a visual approach. They do not have to have the field in sight before being cleared for it. One example would be if visibility is 7 miles and there is a guy on 5 mile final. you call the aircraft in sight but you are 10 miles out. Cant see the field but can see that guy. You can be cleared for the visual approach following that aircraft as he can see the field. You're being "daisy chained" but it is legit and done in the real world quite a bit. Yes i realize this, they could also have a visual chart and have a mountain, building or just some visual refrence that is on the chart in-sight. My point was that If the pilot does not have visablity of anything regarding the field than they cannot be cleared for a vis approach. Thank You for contacting my TA, it is nice to know that you are concerned with the level of my training. Not to worry though as the ZID Instructors do there jobs very well. The above pertains to United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Ramsey 810181 Posted December 26, 2008 at 08:03 PM Posted December 26, 2008 at 08:03 PM WRONG. I've already contacted your TA to review visual approach procedures with you as you have many alternatives to clearing someone for a visual approach. They do not have to have the field in sight before being cleared for it. One example would be if visibility is 7 miles and there is a guy on 5 mile final. you call the aircraft in sight but you are 10 miles out. Cant see the field but can see that guy. You can be cleared for the visual approach following that aircraft as he can see the field. You're being "daisy chained" but it is legit and done in the real world quite a bit. Seems like handling this part, respectfully, by PM may have been a better choice than in this forum. I know your intent is to make VATSIM a better place technically but we also have a responsibility to make it a better place socially too. We can disagree with each other and remain respectful to the point that folks enjoy coming into the forums. We should think of that as a goal for 2009. Kyle Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Najaro 839595 Posted December 26, 2008 at 08:49 PM Posted December 26, 2008 at 08:49 PM (edited) Joe: come fly ZME. We'll show you how its done "Center, Delta 8110 would like to cross TAMMY at seven thousand" "Delta 8110 Standby" (Center coordinates lower altitude with approach) "Delta 8110 cross TAMMY at 8,000 memphis altimeter 29.92" Controller could also come back with "Delta 8110 Approved as requested" Same thing, just different words. You know what you requested so do it WRONG. Not that I really care about all the misinformed dribble that is spewed here daily but when someone like you show boats knowledge around as you did in your post I think some humbling is due. First off it's "at and maintain" when issuing a crossing restiction in the manner you stated. Approved as requested not used in a specific altitude clearance as far as I know. Then again it may not be specifically limited by the 7110 I'm not going to look it up either way so don't hold me too that. Not many vatsim controllers say "at and maintain" when issuing a crossing restiction based on the restriction altitude being the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned altitude. However it is indeed the correct way and I really don't care how you do it in practice RW controllers cheat too but don't come on here correcting phraseology and then get your stuff mixed up. Guess you didn't learn that at the Geek Squad! Edited December 26, 2008 at 08:51 PM by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodge Jr 961044 Posted December 26, 2008 at 08:49 PM Posted December 26, 2008 at 08:49 PM No worries at all here on my end. I do appreciate the concern Kyle, and mentioned that to you via the IM. -Mike Michael D. Hodge Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Ramsey 810181 Posted December 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM Posted December 26, 2008 at 11:22 PM Sounds like the loop is closed, spear throwing accomplished by both sides, thanks for playing, y'all! Kyle Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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