Ian Elchitz 810151 Posted December 7, 2008 at 05:23 PM Posted December 7, 2008 at 05:23 PM Hope this answers the valid questions asked in this thread. From my perspective - yes, and thank you for answering it. Ian Elchitz Just a guy without any fancy titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Wollenberg 810243 Posted December 7, 2008 at 08:31 PM Posted December 7, 2008 at 08:31 PM VATUSA's site is hosted by VATSIM, so if it gets hacked then we're in trouble According to the CPU and Bandwidth errors that were coming up a while ago, the VATUSA site is hosted by Bluehost. The VATSIM site appears to be hosted on a dedicated box in ThePlanet data center. ?? David, thanks for the clarification. That does ease the worries for those of us who are supposed to keep our credentials particularly secure. This whole thing still begs the question though...why not just post the newsletter on the main VATUSA website? Bryan Wollenberg ZLA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bailey 969331 Posted December 7, 2008 at 08:39 PM Posted December 7, 2008 at 08:39 PM This whole thing still begs the question though...why not just post the newsletter on the main VATUSA website? Because that would just be too easy I don't know the details of the VATUSA website, but I know RJ controls it. Leading me to believe that VATSIM has control over it in some form or another. Alex Bailey ZMA I-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Bartell 968788 Posted December 8, 2008 at 01:07 AM Posted December 8, 2008 at 01:07 AM As stated above the authorization system is secure. But according to Brian and a couple of others if its the choice of authentication why doesn't VATSIM create a standard authorization script for all to use. Then create a fail safe to determine if the authorization script has be changed and to check and the check to see if the website is an authorized "VATSIM partner" so to speak. There can also be a page on VATSIM that shows all of the authenticated sites. We could even have a little image that is displayed like the VeriSign if it meets inspection. Something like that would not be hard to do and would solve a bunch of problems. I can see ARTCCs using this method to save with the million p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]words VATSIM members have. Brandon Bartell Controller Atlanta ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Shank Van Eenige 9979 Posted December 8, 2008 at 04:48 PM Posted December 8, 2008 at 04:48 PM Well, I took the plunge and subscribed to the newsletter. To everyone who helped create the newsletter: Nice work! I really like it. Looking forward to the next issue! Eric Shank Van Eenige Real-World Private Pilot vZAU Enroute Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Conrad 989233 Posted December 9, 2008 at 12:33 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 12:33 PM I went to read it, but got stopped by the p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word question. I just don't remember mine--it's enshrined in some files somewhere, so that I don't have to remember it. ZLA Pilot Certs make your eyes bright, your teeth white, and childbirth a pleasure. Get yours today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Blackburn Posted December 9, 2008 at 02:00 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 02:00 PM Wayne, Go to www.vatsim.net Click on Member Services | Lost P[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Conrad 989233 Posted December 9, 2008 at 02:31 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 02:31 PM Norman, Thanks for the link. What's in the newsletter that needs p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word security? ZLA Pilot Certs make your eyes bright, your teeth white, and childbirth a pleasure. Get yours today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Evans Posted December 9, 2008 at 03:01 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 03:01 PM I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why you need a p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word to read a newsletter.. there's still no answer on this.. Mike Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sperduto 856560 Posted December 9, 2008 at 04:52 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 04:52 PM I was also puzzled as to why we need to do that. VATUSA is hosting the newsletter, and we have no idea as to where that form is actually going, although I'm guessing it's just an automated e-mail list. Why not request our VATUSA p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]words? It's right in the local site's (VATUSA's) database. Not just VATUSA Members subscribe to the list... We have to provide some measure of security against malicious registrations this is the best method we have found. If you have serious concerns with providing your VATSIM P[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word then you may have serious issues with quite a few of the division websites on VATSIM as its not uncommon to use this method, as a matter of fact its being suggested now. Brian Sperduto VATSIM Membership Team 1 Lead [email protected] Cross the Pond Oceanic Veteran '07, '08, E & W, '09 E & W '10 W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Evans Posted December 9, 2008 at 04:54 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 04:54 PM Right, I understand for the EMAIL version, my question is, why don't you post what you email to the website so we don't HAVE to go through the whole sign-up process if we don't want to??? Why make it 10x more difficult than it has to be. Mike Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sperduto 856560 Posted December 9, 2008 at 04:58 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 04:58 PM Right, I understand for the EMAIL version, my question is, why don't you post what you email to the website so we don't HAVE to go through the whole sign-up process if we don't want to??? Why make it 10x more difficult than it has to be. Its an email newsletter... Brian Sperduto VATSIM Membership Team 1 Lead [email protected] Cross the Pond Oceanic Veteran '07, '08, E & W, '09 E & W '10 W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bailey 969331 Posted December 9, 2008 at 05:01 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 05:01 PM It'd be a nice to put a PDF version on the website, I'd have to agree with the crowd here. The newsletter, if I'm not mistaken, is a tool geared towards our members. I don't see the big deal with sticking a link to it on the website so that everyone can see it, since again, it's for them. I do believe the goal is to reach the most people to bring attention to the division and increase awareness of events. Edit: All it is is an email attachment anyway. A link on the website wouldn't be that hard. Alex Bailey ZMA I-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Conrad 989233 Posted December 9, 2008 at 05:25 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 05:25 PM How about: stick it on the web and give it an RSS feed. No p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word needed, and those reading it get to find out when there's a new issue without having to check every day. ZLA Pilot Certs make your eyes bright, your teeth white, and childbirth a pleasure. Get yours today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cierpial 1008209 Posted December 9, 2008 at 07:53 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 07:53 PM Guys, I don't understand why you are all having such an issue with the fact that the newsletter is emailed. Dave has already established that giving your vatsim p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word to the VATUSA site to signup for the newsletter is a legitimate request and thus, there should be no issue there. In addition, a requirement for all VATSIM members is to have a working email address, so everyone surely has at least 1 email account they frequently check where they can get the newsletter. CTP Planning Team Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Evans Posted December 9, 2008 at 08:41 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 08:41 PM Right, I understand for the EMAIL version, my question is, why don't you post what you email to the website so we don't HAVE to go through the whole sign-up process if we don't want to??? Why make it 10x more difficult than it has to be. Its an email newsletter... Thanks Brian.. wonderful to see you don't actually want to get the data to us, you just want to flaunt the "power" you've been given.. some things at VATUSA never change.. Mike Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sperduto 856560 Posted December 9, 2008 at 09:18 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 09:18 PM Right, I understand for the EMAIL version, my question is, why don't you post what you email to the website so we don't HAVE to go through the whole sign-up process if we don't want to??? Why make it 10x more difficult than it has to be. Its an email newsletter... Thanks Brian.. wonderful to see you don't actually want to get the data to us, you just want to flaunt the "power" you've been given.. some things at VATUSA never change.. Appreciate the kind words, as its been pointed out before its meant to go via email, if you would like to read it sign up for it, if your still concerned with your p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word I guess you can't read it then. If it was to be made available online you would defeat the purpose of signing up, which is exactly what we are trying to avoid. I'd love to provide you with the "data" but I also want to do it via the means all of the other subscribers have used. Edit: I'll also add if anyone still has grave concerns about using their p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word please email me, my address is listed below, I'll see what I can arrange for you. Brian Sperduto VATSIM Membership Team 1 Lead [email protected] Cross the Pond Oceanic Veteran '07, '08, E & W, '09 E & W '10 W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bailey 969331 Posted December 9, 2008 at 10:36 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 10:36 PM The question is still out there though... We are providing a service to our members. Why are we not meeting their needs? The newsletter is designed to be informative and to advertise events, as well as additional information that is included. It would seem to be common sense to provide the newsletter on the website for everyone to read, why keep it protected and secret? Have we lost sight of the goals of the network? We're here to have fun and we are in our staff positions to SERVE the membership, not our own egos. It seems that posting a link to the PDF file, which I'm guessing would take no more than a minute, would actually provide more of a service to our members. If we're not willing to help our members, why are we here? Think inclusive. Questions are rhetorical, and I have used my p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word. Alex Bailey ZMA I-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted December 9, 2008 at 10:56 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 10:56 PM Right, I understand for the EMAIL version, my question is, why don't you post what you email to the website so we don't HAVE to go through the whole sign-up process if we don't want to??? Why make it 10x more difficult than it has to be. Its an email newsletter... Thanks Brian.. wonderful to see you don't actually want to get the data to us, you just want to flaunt the "power" you've been given.. some things at VATUSA never change.. Appreciate the kind words, as its been pointed out before its meant to go via email, if you would like to read it sign up for it, if your still concerned with your p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word I guess you can't read it then. If it was to be made available online you would defeat the purpose of signing up, which is exactly what we are trying to avoid. I'd love to provide you with the "data" but I also want to do it via the means all of the other subscribers have used. Edit: I'll also add if anyone still has grave concerns about using their p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word please email me, my address is listed below, I'll see what I can arrange for you. Unfortuately this isn't making the logic gears tick in my head. The whole goal of the events department should be to provide public advertisement of the events, if what they appear to be going for (and correct me if I'm wrong, but there are numerous references for this...) event attendance. Seriously, what the hell? The reason this thing isn't getting out is because it's locked until someone provides VATUSA with something that can be compared to a US Social Security number. Obviously there are people who have access to our p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]words and such, but that's their job. Personally, even though I don't believe Mr. Klain is lying about the p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]words being "destroyed" after they p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] through the system, it still is a really iffy system, especially when all we've heard from VATSIM is never share your VATSIM p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word with anyone and when we've only had to use our VATUSA p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word in correspondence with VATUSA. Anyone with access to the VATUSA FTP could go into the form and change the code around to begin obtaining people's p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]words. It's not hard to do. This is one reason why so many people are complaining, especially the supervisors. If anyone with FTP access went in and obtained someone's CID and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word, then their whole VATSIM career would probably go down the drain. It only takes one ill-minded person to create ".kill" havoc on the network. Here's my point, and it's similar to Alex's. Don't do something just because it can be done. Obviously there is much hesitation among our own members (to whom we should be interested in advertising) to get this newsletter. The main argument about not using our VATUSA p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word was because we had an international audience. I laughed when I though of who would suggest, "Yeah, let's VATSIM p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word protect it." Really? Seriously? Just post it publicly and that will solve all of the problems. I can't see why anyone would argue against doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted December 9, 2008 at 11:00 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 11:00 PM And also, if the whole reason we have the signup is to have people alerted that a new publication is out, a similar effect could be achieved by creating a USA forum thread when new issues are released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jenkins Posted December 9, 2008 at 11:32 PM Posted December 9, 2008 at 11:32 PM CAPTCHA The other thing...newsletter IMO should be looked at as advertising....more eyes on it the better. RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Millsaps 830104 Posted December 10, 2008 at 01:32 AM Posted December 10, 2008 at 01:32 AM What in hell's creation is wrong with you people? Are your lives so empty, so devoid of anything of value that you spend countless pages in this forum doing nothing but spouting vitriol and other pointless [Mod - lovely stuff]pola? In case you've all forgotten, THIS IS A FREAKING HOBBY!!! Now that I have your attention, here's a hefty dose of truth about this whole newsletter rigamarol... First off, the development and management of the newsletter and its dissemination was under the charge of Mathew Magera, VATUSA5. From its inception, IT WAS INTENDED AS AN EMAIL NEWSLETTER. This decision was made due to the fact that outside of original signups and testing, LESS THAN 25% OF THE MEMBERS OF VATUSA TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK AT EITHER THE VATUSA WEBSITE OR THIS FORUM. In hopes of gaining a wider audience the decision was made to send it via email. With that, it was also determined that emailing it blindly to all of the membership of VATUSA was not a good idea nor a proper use of the VATSIM broadcast email function; therefore, it was decided a signup system would be implemented. In setting up the signup system, it was further considered that VATSIM members who may not be VATUSA members might have an interest in reading the newsletter. Thus, the request for a valid CID, PW and Email is used for verification of the requestor. It is the only way we have to verify the validity of requests for receipt of the newsletter. For all the mongers, THERE IS NOTHING SECRETIVE IN OR ABOUT THE NEWSLETTER! The process simply verifies the requestor...SO STOP THIS INSANE MALARKY NOW! Now, as for the system itself...VATUSA is using a duly authorized identity verification process as allowed by VATSIM. David Klain posted the specifics above - it is a direct quote from an email I sent him and whether you choose to believe it or not, IT IS THE DAMNED TRUTH! Do you gentlemen honestly think that we in VATUSA management are so inept, so stupid that some measure of thought and consideration has not gone into all this? Do you honestly think those in VATSIM would 1) have placed such inept persons in these positions? 2) or not hung my hide from a barndoor for mis-using your credentials? Think about it. For those of you who can't seem to get past your own hysteria and your "...the sky is falling..." posting habits; get over it. You might get hit by a bus tomorrow, or worse...will that stop you from getting out of bed and going about your life? Probably not...so how's about trying to apply this same logic to your involvement with VATSIM. If some of you would spend more of your time working to make the system better and not piling on and ranting just to hear your own heads roar, we'd all be alot better off..again, IT'S JUST A FREAKIN' HOBBY!!! Let me be more succinct: Mr. Evans, I'm personally and directly inviting you to take your foundationless commentary somewhere else. Gary Millsaps VATUSA1 "I knew all the rules but the rules did not know me... guaranteed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Kolin Posted December 10, 2008 at 01:56 AM Posted December 10, 2008 at 01:56 AM THERE IS NOTHING SECRETIVE IN OR ABOUT THE NEWSLETTER! The process simply verifies the requestor...SO STOP THIS INSANE MALARKY NOW! Mike's comments aside, there's a number of people who were helpfully trying to suggest that you'd get a far wider audience if you made the newsletter public without signup hoops, p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]words, an SSN and a DNA sample from the recipient and two family members. I'm sure VATUSA would benefit from this. Instead everyone seems to dig in their heels and be stubborn. Your loss. Luke ... I spawn hundreds of children a day. They are daemons because they are easier to kill. The first four remain stubbornly alive despite my (and their) best efforts. ... Normal in my household makes you a member of a visible minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Conrad 989233 Posted December 10, 2008 at 02:19 AM Posted December 10, 2008 at 02:19 AM I received the first issue of the newsletter this afternoon. Thanks all for your help. ZLA Pilot Certs make your eyes bright, your teeth white, and childbirth a pleasure. Get yours today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Rosenquist 994904 Posted December 10, 2008 at 02:20 AM Posted December 10, 2008 at 02:20 AM The points made about why registration should be required for users to receive each newsletter via e-mail seem perfectly valid. However, again, why not post it as a link on the VATUSA website as well? Those who want to receive each issue via e-mail can take the time to register, and those who don't can pick them up from the website. It's the best of both worlds. What's the issue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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