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anthony. see the following docomeent, itll help answer your questions

http://zmaartcc.net/Robbie/Super_Bowl_09/superbowl_pilot09.pdf

 

as far as i know, yes time slots are used in the real world aswell for airport/airline ops. for example when i worked at EWR, the airline could recieve a fine if they were not out of the gate by the scheduled time.

 

you wont get fined here this is merely for traffic management.

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OK folks, as discussed in the other (locked thread) this issue is being handled at the BoG, VATNA, VATUSA, ZMA level. No need for a lot of finger-pointing back and forth. There are concerns about the procedures that were announced and discussions are in progress. We'll make an announcement once that is complete. Until that time, please give the system a chance to work.

 

I really don't want to lock down this thread.

 

Thanks,

Dave

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I'm not going to clutter up the thread, but I did want to answer Alex's question in case others are wondering too.

 

Honestly guys? Why are we all of a sudden nailing ZMA for their efforts to have an orderly event? Almost every large event of this nature in the past has used a booking system, including Cross the Pond.

 

The issue is:

 

registration is required for all IFR arrivals

 

Large events recommend booking systems; that's a very different sort of fish than requiring a booking, which opens a whole bunch of cans of worms, which is why Dave is on the case.

Tim Krajcar

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Since this registration requirement has no real-world parallel, I think I'll p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] on this event—I'm too much of a realism junkie. The real-world registration is simply an IFR flight plan. Even MITRE events allow "unregistered" flights.

 

It is true that some airports allocate a limited number of slots to flights, but that is specific to a small handful of extremely busy airports, not a general rule. And I can't imagine any airport on VATSIM running out of gates. So allocating slots has a real-world parallel, but that's different from the registration requirement here, it seems.

 

Good luck with your event.

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Since this registration requirement has no real-world parallel, I think I'll p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] on this event—I'm too much of a realism junkie. The real-world registration is simply an IFR flight plan. Even MITRE events allow "unregistered" flights.

 

It is true that some airports allocate a limited number of slots to flights, but that is specific to a small handful of extremely busy airports, not a general rule. And I can't imagine any airport on VATSIM running out of gates. So allocating slots has a real-world parallel, but that's different from the registration requirement here, it seems.

 

Good luck with your event.

 

I knew there would be a silver lining to all this.

Kyle Ramsey

 

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You made it personal, I simply applauded your decision not to attend without commenting on your incorrect information in the post and recognized how that outcome could only make the ZMA event better. I chose to applaud so that those who have worked hard to make this event possible know that your opinion holds no weight whatsoever and they can count on the rest of the VATSIM leadership to support them and their efforts, including calling out posters who's comments are designed to drag things down, not make them better.

 

No response would be the superior choice, Anthony.

Kyle Ramsey

 

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Having essentially orchestrated the 2008 Super Bowl in to PHX, and from a real life perspective, let me say this.

 

Even if there isn't some formal slot system put in place in real life, you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be some hefty miles in trail restrictions put in place on to ZHU/ZTL/ZJX/ZMA for arrivals in and around TPA.

 

Large miles in trail requires careful metering. Careful metering doesn't exist on this network in the form of a contiguous, nationwide TMU system. In light of this fact, reservations, and the simple hope that pilots will at least try and comply with some time slots is a viable option.

 

Bear in mind, as well, the super bowl restrictions last year in real life didn't come out until 1/17/08. Just be patient people... not like the FAA works lightning fast or anything.

 

~Nate

Nate Johns

 

"All things are difficult before they are easy."

- Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

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Since this registration requirement has no real-world parallel.

 

Uhh... STMP is the real world parallel... and it's too early yet to say if the FAA will create a STMP for the Super Bowl, but it's likely given the complexity of the central Florida airspace.

Jim Johnson

VP - Membership (VATGOV12)

j.johnson(at)vatsim.net

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OK folks, as I posted, I am in discussions with the appropriate leaders shortly. Expect to see guidance on how this will function on VATSIM in the near future. Remember that on VATSIM we do not do political, war or security issures (TFRS, DC ADIZ, etc.). What is being sorted out is what traffic management controls will be put in place for what promises to be a big fly-in.

 

I worked with ZAB on last year's event in PHX and it went very well. Expect to see similar results this year!

 

Dave

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This reminds me, and I hope that either someone who was around then could confirm this, let alone someone who was in ZLC at the time.

 

IIRC, back in 2002, there was the Park City Fly-in, for the Olympics being held there. What I'm trying to remember (and need help with) was that I believe there was a TFR set up for the duration of that fly-in, and to go along with the real-world NOTAMs at the time, each arrival into the airports for the fly-in (SLC, BTF, OGD, U42, 42U, TVY, HII), you any arrival (especially any international arrival) had to stop at a designated airport of entry/inspection before continuing on to the SLC area, plus needed reservation to get into the SLC area. Real-world wise, I know this is true, because I entertained some guests at LAS who were on their way to SLC, and LAS was a designated airport of entry/inspection (as was DEN, BOI, and a few others). They had to stop there, not fly all the way through.

 

If that worked out and without a hitch, a simple simulation of a TFR like this, and like what Nate had at ZAB last year is nothing. I'll see if that NOTAM is around somewhere, because it was an interesting one.

 

EDIT: Found the NOTAM. They were Gateway airports where the insection would take place. Airports were KBOI, KGJT, KCOS, and KLAS:

 

http://tinyurl.com/78sqml

 

Very interesting NOTAM. I do remember an event around the time of the Games; what I don't remember is if they used the TFR as depicted in the NOTAM.

 

BL.

Brad Littlejohn

ZLA Senior Controller

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Here's my opinion.

 

Let the ARTCC's have some fun. As long as they don't berate or prevent a pilot from flying, there's absolutely no harm in letting them simulate a TFR or some other non-standard event. We had suicide ops in ZLA during the middle of the evening (which would never happen real world) and the pilots and controllers had a BLAST.

 

In terms of the TFR, the ARTCC should instruct their controllers to use language like: "N12345, there's a temporary TFR in place. Can I suggest you do the following..." but if the pilot absolutely refuses, just send him on his way and get him out of the airspace to make room for those that are willing to have some fun and play along.

 

This is one of the nice features of a simulated network - we can have fun trying some things which wouldn't normally happen real world.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Please Note** Pilot Registrations for the Super Bowl '09 Event will close at 0500Z (12am EST)! You MUST be registered before this time in order to be eligible for one of the Super Bowl Prizes!

Super Bowl Home page: http://zmaartcc.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=59&Itemid=87

 

Pilot Registrations: http://zmaartcc.net/index.php?option=com_artforms&formid=8

 

 

Regards,

There is only 1 thing in the world that I really want to do. To fly.

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