Flying a Holding Pattern during IFR Flight

[Simon Linsell 917791]

As a newbie with a grand total of 3 excellent online flights under my belt I now feel confident enough to start thinking about some of the other more complicated aspects of flying. So far I have used FS Nav to plan my routes and have selected appropriate SIDs/STARs which have all been accepted by ATC on each occ[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ion. On my last flight into Gatwick EGKK during a busy Sunday night I was aware that a BAW flight was some 80 or so miles in front of me and he was told to enter the holding pattern at Midhurst (I think). It then occured to me that I didn't have any charts on board to aid me if I were to receive a similar instruction from ATC. As it happened I was lucky and traffic had cleared sufficiently on my arrival into EGKK not to have to perform such a holding pattern. What is the correct procedure for a pilot if you receive this instruction without charts on-board. Is it acceptable to request vectors for the pattern from ATC. I presume also that holding patterns should be flown at no higher than 250 kts IAS. Any information regarding this aspect of flying would be greatly received as I'm sure I'm likely to receive this instruction when I next approach EGLL for example - thanks Simon Linsell (917791)

[Chris Dobison 810929]

Simon,

 

First of all, welcome to Vatsim!! With regards to your question, yes - holding patterns are traditionally flown at 220kts below FL140 and 250kts above FL140 (I think 250 above anyway!!). Don't worry about asking for the holding pattern instructions, I found I had to on a flight a few nights ago when I forgot to get the charts in advance!

 

Most holding patterns are based on an inbound course to a specified fix (VOR/Waypoint/NDB/etc), a turn direction, and leg time. For example, the Lambourne (LAM) hold at Heathrow is a left hand pattern, inbound course is 275 degrees, and the legs are 1 minute long. Therefore a full hold at LAM will take 3 minutes (From the fix, 0.5 minutes for left hand turn over LAM; 1 minute outbound leg; 0.5 minutes for left hand turn inbound to LAM; 1 minute back to LAM). Sometimes, ATC may just ask you to do a "360" over the holding fix...this is not a hold, it is used to gain approximately 5nm extra distance and is flown by turning all the way around at a holding pattern (Ie Instruction "Speedbird 123, at Lambourne make one left 360 to leave heading 270 degrees"). Another way of hearing this would be "At Lambourne, one left hand orbit to leave heading 270 degrees".

 

You can find charts for every UK Airport at www.ais.org.uk. You have to register to gain access but it is a free service, and once inside the direct link is http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/html/aipad2.htm. Click on the airport you want to view then find the chart for the STAR you are flying. All the relevant holds are on there. I believe you can enter holds into FS Nav but I am not 100% sure it can fly them for you. Payware aircraft such as Level-D B767 and the Phoenix Simulations (PSS) aircraft have the ability to program in holds and fly them for you making it easier instead of timing legs and rates of turn, etc.

 

If you need any further advice, please feel free to shout either here - or for more specialist UK help try the Vatsim UK Forum found at www.vatsim-uk.org (Select Forum from the top menu).

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

Chris

[Simon Linsell 917791]

Chris

 

Thanks for the excellent reply. It confirmed my understanding of what I'm supposed to do but it was good to get the re[Mod - Happy Thoughts]urance from someone in the know.

 

Best regards

Simon - 917791

[Alan Withers 923603]

I was that 'unlucky' pilot told to hold at MID. And even with the chart, it was a sudden scramble under the desk to read and understand it, as I don't use FSNav to fly the plane. I had never been asked to fly a hold before, so it was a great learning experience and probably long overdue, as I've done about 60 BAV flights now. Perhaps we should get holds more often ??!!

[Ruth McTighe 824054]

I was that 'unlucky' pilot told to hold at MID. And even with the chart, it was a sudden scramble under the desk to read and understand it, as I don't use FSNav to fly the plane. I had never been asked to fly a hold before, so it was a great learning experience and probably long overdue, as I've done about 60 BAV flights now. Perhaps we should get holds more often ??!!

 

Hi Alan,

 

Feel free to ask if you want some holding practice - it's good practice for the controllers too. I don't fly IFR much, but I remember vividly the first hold I ever flew - at one stage the contorller politely asked if I'd lost my way, and had to give me vectors to get back on track! It's certainly something a lot of pilots struggle with.

 

Ruth

VATUK2

[Brad Hosking 910720]

The last couple of fly in's in Aus we have been using VOR or NDB Holds as everyone seems to arrive at the same time.

 

It certainly makes it interesting when flying the little stuff without an FMC... FMC tends to be a little easier as you program the hold for the waypoint and then just tell it if you want right turns or left according to the charts.

 

Without the FMC tends to sometimes get a little more tricky.

 

It also makes it quite interesting for the controller online at the time as well. I highly recommend the practice as the sequencing that happens near an airfield with a Hold can at times get a little hairy. Almost resembles a gaggle of gliders in a thermal

 

Brad

[Andre Koch 852831]

We have a holding event coming up in the SAG (we held one last year at EDDL, and it is universally thought of as one of the best events ever), so if you are interested in flying holds, you may want to have a look at that event. The planning is still in the VERY early stages though, so unfortunately I can´t give you a date or any more details yet.

 

We´ll make sure to properly announce it though once we have all the information we need, so please feel free to join the fun.

[Alan Withers 923603]

Thanks Ruth, that's appreciated. I think the hold, at MAY it was, went well on this occasion but it's something I'd like to practise more at my home airport EGKK as well as others I visit.

[Gareth Williams 840232]

I'd like to practise more at my home airport EGKK

 

I am sure that can be arranged Alan...

 

Seriously though, if you want to practice your holds just drop the appropriate approach controller a PM while enroute (or mention it to the TMA controller and it will magically become 'necessary' for you to hold...

 

Regards

Gareth

[Michael Zazula]

Hello,

 

Therefore a full hold at LAM will take 3 minutes (From the fix, 0.5 minutes for left hand turn over LAM; 1 minute outbound leg; 0.5 minutes for left hand turn inbound to LAM; 1 minute back to LAM).

 

Am I missing something? As far as I remember the standard rate of turn is 3 degrees per second. This would require the full minute for each 180 turn (outbound and inbound) and 4 minutes for the whole pattern.

 

Best regards,

MJZ

[Luca Vetturi 874351]

Hello,

 

Therefore a full hold at LAM will take 3 minutes (From the fix, 0.5 minutes for left hand turn over LAM; 1 minute outbound leg; 0.5 minutes for left hand turn inbound to LAM; 1 minute back to LAM).

 

Am I missing something? As far as I remember the standard rate of turn is 3 degrees per second. This would require the full minute for each 180 turn (outbound and inbound) and 4 minutes for the whole pattern.

 

Best regards,

MJZ

 

yeah, you're 100% right

4 minutes for a 1 min holding = 1 min turn, 1 min outbound, 1 min turn, 1 min inbound