Visual Approaches

[Aaron Kearney 900917]

I've flown around 10 legs now in the VATEUR region after confining myself to VATUSA for a long time, and have had nothing but enjoyable experiences so far. One thing I noticed about Arrival controllers "over here" is how little visual approaches are used. In fact, I haven't been given one visual approach in VATEUR yet (mind you I've seen plenty of IMC), and all of the visual approach charts I see seem to be tailored for GA aircraft. Depending on who's doing the controlling, visual approaches can be used very liberally in the US, but not so much in Europe. Is it possible that in Europe visual approaches are prohibited for aircraft over, say, a certain empty weight, or do controllers just choose not to use them?

[Josh Hjemvick 811983]

I know im not much of a VATEUR guy. . . but I have been told many a times that visual approachs are extremely rare at some of the larger airports just due to the complexity of the traffic environment. Im sure one of the VATUK, or VATEUR C1/C3's can chime in on this as well.

[Kyprianos Biris]

There is nothing in Europe that prevents pilots from wide use of visual approaches or more generally VFR procedures.

 

The difference between the two continents (aviation wise) is that in US the General Aviation has a much greater percentage of the traffic volume and hence you get to see visual procedures much more often there but in light traffic (mostly GA).

 

In Europe G.A. is much more expensive and it is not so widely used as much as across the pond.

 

If you are refering to large jets flying IFR VMC approaches in large airports (in EUR) then there is no difference from the US. Such traffic is most often served as IFR traffic everywhere and you rarelly see visual approaches being approved when traffic is tight in the area. The prime reason is other IFR heavy traffic in front and behind them most of the time.

 

If memory serves me well, there is a difference in visual approaches between USA & EUR, where in the US there is the "(visual)contact approach" whereupon and aircraft may get better priviledges in visual approach clearances under reduced visibility if they have (and are able to maintain) the preceding traffic in sight, but still not the runway. This is a contact approach and not a regular visual approach. In Europe it may not be called "contact approach" but still they will require you the same thing (contact with preceding) if you request visual approach as No2 or 3 in the landing sequence. Please fellow ATCers (US & EUR) correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

Generally, (real) VFR GA traffic in Europe is not as "respected" as in the states. The reason is the one I just mentioned. It is much less over here and therefore ATC has not catered for needed provisions. VFR traffic is most often considered as a "headache" in EUR (real) controllers.

 

What happens in many places in Europe (not all) is that you have VFR routes at set altitudes for flying through busy terminal areas. These altitudes are always lower from overflying IFR traffic and hence they get you out of their (IFR) way and you don't need the equivalent of Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Bravo entry clearance but you have to maintain these preset routes & altitudes all the way through the terminal area and mny times they don't favor the transiting traffic which needs to go point to point direct at cruise altitude.

 

IFR VMC approaches though is another thing and there is nothing that prevents them in Europe. As long as you remain IFR you're not a "headache" !

 

Even though I live in a country with mediterranean weather where we rarelly encounter serious IMC, I still went and got my IFR rating and fly IFR 90% of the time only to get the services & respect I would not get as VFR

[Michael Zazula]

In Poland (real life) untill recently there have been a rule that a visual approach is allowed only on the pilot request. A controller could not propose it first. Some used a walk around, asking pilots if they have a runway in sight or informing them that the visibility is good. After such kind of sugestion most captians asked for visual approach .

 

Now it's over and controllers are free to use visual approaches. However some people have old habitudes. Therefore I would sugest ASKING for a viusal approach. It will be approved or you will get the reason why it is denied.

 

Best regards,

MJZ

[Martin Georg 811874]

Hiya,

 

in Germany visual approaches are not allowed on most major commercial airports. However, visual separation (i.e. the transfer of separation responsability to the pilot) is often used under good weather conditions. For this the approach controller needs to have both aircraft established on the final. The phraseology for this is as followed:

 

C: DLHxxx , preceeding traffic is a Speedbird 737, 3 miles ahead for the same runway, do you have him in sight?

P: affirm, traffic is in sight

C: Able to maintain visual separation to that traffic?

P: Affirmative

C: Thanks, maintain visual separation to preceeding traffic, contact tower now on xxx.xxx

 

Please note that an explicite landing clearance is still required from tower, and that this landing clearance will (contrary to the US) not be issued ahead. I.e. the preceeding traffic needs to be clear of the runway first before tower will issue the next landing clearance.

 

This is the real-life procedure. At VATSIM however, you can always ask a german controller for a visual approach .

[Mark Brummett]

Hiya,

 

in Germany visual approaches are not allowed on most major commercial airports. However, visual separation (i.e. the transfer of separation responsability to the pilot) is often used under good weather conditions. For this the approach controller needs to have both aircraft established on the final. The phraseology for this is as followed:

 

C: DLHxxx , preceeding traffic is a Speedbird 737, 3 miles ahead for the same runway, do you have him in sight?

P: affirm, traffic is in sight

C: Able to maintain visual separation to that traffic?

P: Affirmative

C: Thanks, maintain visual separation to preceeding traffic, contact tower now on xxx.xxx

 

Please note that an explicite landing clearance is still required from tower, and that this landing clearance will (contrary to the US) not be issued ahead. I.e. the preceeding traffic needs to be clear of the runway first before tower will issue the next landing clearance.

 

This is the real-life procedure. At VATSIM however, you can always ask a german controller for a visual approach .

 

Just a clarification Martin.

 

In the US, the approach controller CANNOT clear an aircraft to land at an airport the approach controller has cleared for the visual approach. The tower still owns the airfield, so he/she must clear that aircraft to land.

 

It would look something like this in the US:

 

C: American 2293, airport is at your 11 o clock, 12 miles, report the runway in sight.

P: 2293 has the runway in sight.

C: American 2293, you're cleared for the visual approach to runway 12R, contact the tower now on 118.5

P: 18 point five, American 2293.

 

In the US, approach controllers at quite a few airports, given that the conditions warrant, will give clearance to perform a visual approach to the active runway for arrivals. In many cases, this clearance will be given upon the first visual contact of the airfield, regardless of position. We will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume in this case above, the pilot is flying a heading of 030 from the south for the 12R arrival. This means that the pilot will need to enter a right downwind, then turn base and land, given that the tower controller has cleared the pilot to land. Keep in mind this does not abstain the duties of the tower controller to keep separation from other aircraft just because the controller is giving a visual clearance. It's still an instrument procedure, but it's done to expedite traffic into the arrival airport. A pilot may need to only fly out about four NM past the threshold on downwind to start the base turn, as opposed to up to 10 NM for a full ILS approach.

 

What you might hear next is the following:

 

P: Tower, American 2293 with you, right downwind rwy 12R

T: American 2293, winds 140 at 6, runway 12R cleared to land.

 

This is my understanding of how it works and how I've observed it done MANY MANY times at my home airport of Tulsa Internation (KTUL). It may be different in other areas of the US, but tower still gives the clearance to land.

 

Now, I have seen approach clear an aircraft to land in my area, but that's when tower and approach were combined on one frequency, and that is usually done later at night. Most larger airports never combine those positions.

[Martin Georg 811874]

Hi Mark,

 

I think you misunderstood my statement. With "will not be issued ahead" I meant that there is no "cleared to land as no. 2" in Europe. For sure I´m with you that the approach controller does not issue landing clearances

[Mark Brummett]

Hi Mark,

 

I think you misunderstood my statement. With "will not be issued ahead" I meant that there is no "cleared to land as no. 2" in Europe. For sure I´m with you that the approach controller does not issue landing clearances

 

Yep, after I read it again, I realized I misread it.

 

My mistake...

 

Nice meeting you this weekend!