IFR Clearance when their is no ATC

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Hello everyone!

 

I'm sure this question has been addressed before, (sorry my search queries didn't anwser this) but can anyone tell me who gets my flight plan when I file it from an airport without any manned ATC stations?

 

For example in the USA, I want to fly IFR from KLAX to KSEA. There is nobody manning any of the ATC positions in KZLA airspace, however KZSE Center is manned.

 

So my question is... does KZSE Center get a copy of this flight plan and is expecting me?? Or am I just a "pop-up" when approaching their airspace? (haven't been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned a transponder code)

 

And a final thought, (maybe I'm just used to the real thing in the USA) flying from an unmanned tower airport, and unable to reach center on the ground, FSS can issue a IFR clearance via radio or telephone.

 

Is there a standard procedure for this in VATSIM?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Gerry

[Jim Johnson 814050]

So my question is... does KZSE Center get a copy of this flight plan and is expecting me?? Or am I just a "pop-up" when approaching their airspace? (haven't been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned a transponder code)

 

You will be treated by ZSE as not radar identified unless you are handed off directly from OAK_CTR. ZSE will give you a new squawk code and issue "Radar Contact" before giving you further instructions.

 

And a final thought, (maybe I'm just used to the real thing in the USA) flying from an unmanned tower airport, and unable to reach center on the ground, FSS can issue a IFR clearance via radio or telephone.

 

Is there a standard procedure for this in VATSIM?

 

You would need to contact the CTR controller. CTR will play the role of FSS and give you an IFR clearance. Then you will get a departure release (like in the real world) and report airborne to the CTR controller.

[Marc Sykes 852946]

When you file a flightplan it's available to any controllers within range. Center controllers can have up to a 600-mile visibility range, other positions have less.

 

If you're on the ground at LAX, the controllers in Seattle won't see you (or your flightplan), but once you're p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ing say east of SFO enroute, the Seattle Center controller will probably be able to pick you up. You will pop up in his arrivals list for Seattle. He can see, and amend, your flightstrip, [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign a code, etc.. You should still file a plan before you depart, however, even when there's no ATC, so that if a controller signs on in L.A. or Oakland centers, they have a strip for you as opposed to a guy flying along with no strip on file.

 

With regard to a non-towered airport, there are no FSS on VATSIM (except for Oceanic controllers, but the suffix will soon change since FSS is not a very accurate way to describe what Oceanic controllers do), so you would call the overlying approach or center controller directly. For example, if you want to fly out of Avalon (KAVX), that's in Socal Approach's airspace, so you call him, he gives you your clearance, an IFR release, and a void time. You depart on UNICOM then call him back airborne.

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Thank you gentlemen for you rapid reply.

 

So I'm to understand I should ask for my clearance from ZSE or anyone manning that sector from LAX?

 

I'm sorry to ask, but if not, am I flying VFR 1200 at FL410 until reaching controlled (manned) airspace? Or should I try to contact ANY ATC within the 600nm boundry for clearance?

 

Thanks so much again,

 

Gerry

 

PS Because I'm a newbee to VATSIM, (real world pilot although) do you (as ATC personnel) monitor pending flight plans to decide if you guys are going to have some traffic (and fun), or is it kinda "logon and see"?

[Ross Carlson]

When you file a flightplan it's available to any controllers within range. Center controllers can have up to a 600-mile visibility range, other positions have less.

 

Flight plans are actually available to any controller, regardless of range. They just have to know your callsign, which they obviously won't until you are within their visibility range. However, if you were departing uncontrolled airspace, and you wanted to "clear" your flight plan with any of the controllers who's airspace you will be transiting, then you could certainly try contacting those controllers by private message ahead of time. They can call up your strip and let you know if your route is good for the portion that crosses their airspace. This is especially handy if you aren't sure if you've filed the right STAR, etc. This would not be an IFR clearance, just a way of making sure your plan is ok.

 

Note, however, that many controllers don't like being private messaged. I don't mind it myself, unless I'm really busy. So I'd avise that you check the controller's airspace with a tool like ServInfo before private messaging him. If he's busy, he may ignore the message.

 

Otherwise, just file your flight plan, depart on UNICOM, squawk whatever code you want other than 1200, then check in with the first controller who's airspace you enter. He will give you a squawk code and radar identify you. He may then make changes to the remainder of your flight plan, so be prepared to reprogram your autopilot.

[Marc Sykes 852946]

and you wanted to "clear" your flight plan with any of the controllers who's airspace you will be transiting, then you could certainly try contacting those controllers by private message ahead of time. They can call up your strip and let you know if your route is good for the portion that crosses their airspace.

 

Out of range = no radioselect

No radioselect = no flightstrip

 

Unless you mean looking at the filed plan through Servinfo, which I suppose would be possible, or having the pilot PM it. If there's a way to look at a pilot's flightstrip without radioselecting him, I'm not aware of it.

 

Regarding the OP's followup questions .. if you're departing from LAX, only the following people could give you a clearance on the ground: LAX_DEL, LAX_GND, LAX_TWR, LAX_APP, LAX_CTR, in that order. If none of those positions is active, your departure is going to be on UNICOM. There's no point in contacting say Las Vegas Approach, or Denver Center, they can't help you. So yes, you're effectively VFR on an IFR flight plan (I suppose you could say that), but you shouldn't squawk 1200 since you don't want ATC to confuse you with someone who actually intends to fly VFR and not contact you (not going to happen at FL410, since there's no VFR in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A airspace, but could happen at a lower altitude).

 

I think all controllers monitor the traffic situation (often using Servinfo which isn't range-limited and thus provides a broader picture than ASRC) to see what's going on. In my case, I don't really make the decision to sign on or not based on the traffic picture, other than making a special effort to be online if it looks like there's a group flight departing from or arriving at one of our airports. I'm lucky enough to work in a center that gets a lot of traffic, so there's pretty much always enough going on to keep my interested. I think the traffic chasing is more limited to controllers who can only work GND or TWR; during really really slow times it may not be worth their while to sign on. But those of us who are APP and CTR-qualified, at least in larger centers, are able to work decent traffic just about anytime. I also know that if I sign on to LAX_CTR, even if there aren't any aircraft at the time, pilots will see me online and within 30-60 minutes I'll have a dozen targets -- particularly if not very many centers are staffed -- because pilots want to fly where the controllers are.

 

Hope this helps.

[Ross Carlson]

and you wanted to "clear" your flight plan with any of the controllers who's airspace you will be transiting, then you could certainly try contacting those controllers by private message ahead of time. They can call up your strip and let you know if your route is good for the portion that crosses their airspace.

 

Out of range = no radioselect

No radioselect = no flightstrip

 

Unless you mean looking at the filed plan through Servinfo, which I suppose would be possible, or having the pilot PM it. If there's a way to look at a pilot's flightstrip without radioselecting him, I'm not aware of it.

 

".ss CALLSIGN enter"

 

Notice that when you press F6, it just puts .ss into your command line. Then when you click an aircraft (or otherwise radio select with your ASEL, key, etc) that essentially just appends the callsign to the command and sends it. The F-keys are really just shortcuts for the dot commands, and radio selecting is really just a shortcut for entering the callsign as a parameter to the command.

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Thanks again gentlemen!

 

So I can file an IFR flight plan from an airport without any manned ATC positions in IMC, create my own transponder code, and traffic conditions permitting (using ServInvo) takeoff any fly my filed flight plan and altitude prior to reaching controlled (manned ATC) airspace. Okay, I think I get it!

 

Regarding my other queation about "pending flights" is there a place that we could submit our future plans (say a few hours or more from departure) that you fine ATC folks could look at, to help you decide if it's worth your time to man a post?

 

I reallize there's no paycheck in what you people do, (as in real life, but I hear the paychecks arn't that great either!!!) but (just a newbee) would that help increase your traffic?

 

For example, it would be nice to see (as an VATSIM pilot) the number of pilots scheduled for departure at KXXX between XX:XX and XX:XX?

 

I for one would like to join and fly with your ATC support, and think it would be much more fun for all of us!!

 

Thanks again for your feedback,

 

Cheers!

 

Gerry Hattendorf

[Marc Sykes 852946]

Cool, I learned something new today.

 

As for filing in advance, you can do this here: http://www.vatsim.net/fp/

 

Once you actually log in, your callsign will be automatically [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with this plan, no need to file through SB3. I do not know how long it will hold the prefiled plan waiting for you to log in, probably no more than a few hours. There are rumors that one day, this will be the only way to file, and you won't be able to do it through the clients anymore, but I don't know whether this is fact or fiction.

 

Servinfo shows these prefiled plans, so if controllers are monitoring it, they'll see them. There's no real way to see prefiles in ASRC, though. If you connect at KLAX and file a plan, and I'm working LAX_CTR, you'll show up on my departure list, but only if you're in range. You don't show up as a pending arrival until you're airborne, so you wouldn't show up on SEA_CTR's arrival list at least until then, and then only if you're in range.

[Gerry Hattendorf 935415]

Well, understanding the VATSIM flight rules, (FAA;s part 91, 121, and 135) are just abit different, however considering this this a virtual simulation, (you don't get paid as ATC, and I don't get paid either, or even notice the climate change when I arrive!! ) I commenend your efforts!

 

If theres a lobby or forum of pilots that would like to pre-file, (guess they call them fly-ins) pilots and controllers could arrange date/times o "fly the sky".... Probally all ready thought of though....

 

Thanks again Marc,

 

Happy Controlling!

 

Gerry

[Ross Carlson]

As for filing in advance, you can do this here: http://www.vatsim.net/fp/

 

Once you actually log in, your callsign will be automatically [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with this plan, no need to file through SB3. I do not know how long it will hold the prefiled plan waiting for you to log in, probably no more than a few hours.

 

I believe pre-filed plans stay in the system for two hours. I don't remember where I heard that, but I do remember it being a reputable source. Never tested the theory myself.

[Pablo Norambuena 857610]

As for filing in advance, you can do this here: http://www.vatsim.net/fp/

 

Once you actually log in, your callsign will be automatically [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociated with this plan, no need to file through SB3. I do not know how long it will hold the prefiled plan waiting for you to log in, probably no more than a few hours.

 

I believe pre-filed plans stay in the system for two hours. I don't remember where I heard that, but I do remember it being a reputable source. Never tested the theory myself.

 

It tells you right after you have filed it through pre-file vatsim website. It says it will retain the FP for 2 hours

[Ross Carlson]

Hrm, perhaps that's the reputable source that I remember! I guess if I actually used the prefile system, I'd have known that .... heh.

[Matthew Kramer]

If I understand correctly, there is the 'EuroBook' System. I have not used it myself, but If I am correct (someone from accross the pond can answer ) you can prefile with your departure and destination airports, so controllers can see what kinds of traffic to expect and when a good sign on time would be. At the same time, ATC can announce when they will be online so pilots can have the optimum oppertunity to fly with lots of ATC.

I'm sorry to ask, but if not, am I flying VFR 1200 at FL410 until reaching controlled (manned) airspace? Or should I try to contact ANY ATC within the 600nm boundry for clearance?

Please excuse me if I don't understand this phrase quite completly. I would not suggest flying above 17,500 with a transponder code of 1200, as FL180 in the U.S. signifies Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A airpsace, which is restricted to IFR.

If there is no controller online that can cover your airport, then change to an IFR transponder code (2200 is what most people use), and begin your flight as normal, reporting advisories on 122.80 (text). If an APP/DEP signs online during your climb, contact them. They will issue you a new code, and you will resume flight oeprations as if you had recived your IFR clearance. Same goes if your level, and are about to enter an online Center's airspace.

-Matt

P.S. someone please feel free to correct any errors in my post, I have not had much sleep recently, and I'm feeling the effects....

[Paul Byrne]

Hi,

 

Just to let you know. If you file an IFR plan through SB3, it will automatically change your squawk to 2200 once you p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] 60kts. You will see this happen as you roll down the runway, you'll get a message saying that squawkbox has forced a code change of 2200.

 

So, don't worry about issuing yourself a squawk. Once you're 2200, controllers can see a limited data tag and call pull up your info from the tag. You will also be flashing CODE on your tag cause you'll be sharing this with other aircraft and will remind the controller to issue a squawkcode for radar identification. If you are 1200, all the controller sees is a V with your altitude and can't pull any other info from this.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Cheers!

Paul.

[Craig Moulton]

No matter how you file (SB3, VATSIM FP Prefile, FSINN, if you file IFR, your sq code will automatically change to 2200.

[Terry Kocher 919807]

After a given time...the squawk code doesnt automatically change to 2200.

 

I was flying KGEG-KSEA with no ATC all the way, got about 45 minutes into the flight descending into KSEA I get a message saying my squawk had automatically changed to 2200. So it isnt automatic.