Newbie, in need of assistance.

[Benjamin Fiddes 937373]

Hello everyone, hopefull I am in the right area. (I live in the UK)

I'm Ben Fiddes and after a long time of wanting to join Vatsim I have made the plunge. After some problems and in getting all sorts of emails I have finally managed to log in for the first time. I was put off by Vatsim for some while as I was told along these lines it was a complicated place where they are only interested in professional expert flying and communication.

So I have stayed away until I got some more experience. I know how to fly aircraft and how to land and take off as well as fly sensibly and properly without loosing controlm, though I rely rather heavily on the autopilot for the really big aircraft. I have picked up some ATC experience from a site that provided ATC (Livewire) and perfected responding to the way it is done there. I think I could easily manage, but I was worried about the requirements of SIDS and STARS. Unfortunately I have no idea how to use them. So my first question is: Is this a problem?

 

I have downloaded and installed two things from the site that were marked as follows:

 

SquawkBox 3 Uploaded on Saturday, April 23, 2005

Joel DeYoung

SB3 is the long awaited new version of the SquawkBox pilot client

 

Advanced Voice Client Uploaded on Saturday, April 23, 2005

Chris Serio & Ben Supnik

New version of the voice client.

 

Question no.2 Is that all what is needed for online flying?

 

Question no. 3 Do I need to join another sub division? I think I registered in the Europe division and I hope that doesn't mean I am confined to flying in Europe.

 

Question no. 4 What do I do now?! I have read rules and all sorts of things and now want to get going!

 

Many thanks,

Ben

[Chris Dobison 810929]

Ben,

 

First of all, a warm welcome to Vatsim!! Now to answer your questions as best I can:

 

I think I could easily manage, but I was worried about the requirements of SIDS and STARS. Unfortunately I have no idea how to use them. So my first question is: Is this a problem?

 

First off, I will try explaining SIDs and STARs in a bit more detail:

 

SIDs (Standard Instrument Departures) are runway specific and take you to a point at which you can enter the airways system. They are coded in the format [3/5 letter end fix][version number][runway designator] (Eg Heathrow, WOBUN2G where the SID joins the airways at WOBUN, version 2 (if you have a WOBUN1G for example and ATC issue WOBUN2G then yours is is out of date), and the G relates to runway 27L.) Similarly, BPK6G joins the airways at BPK (Brookmans Park), version 6, and again G for 27L. You are not expected to know these designators off by heart, they are printed on the relevant chart for the SID. Charts can be obtained by going to http://www.ais.org.uk and registering for the AIS service (follow registration links...it is free). Once logged in, follow the menu system Publications --> UK AIP then click "The UK AIP Package" on the following page. More menus to follow, click on UK AIP --> UK AIP --> AERODROME DATA --> AERODROMES - SPECIFIC to get a list of all the airports in the UK. The charts contain level restrictions too so it's often very useful to have the chart to hand even if you are being vectored so you can follow where ATC are taking you.

 

STARs (STandard Arrival Routes/Standard Terminal Arrival Routes) are not runway specific. They generally take you from the airways to a specified holding fix whereby ATC then issue vectors to take you to final approach. They are coded in the format [3/5 letter holding fix designator][version number][unique letter depending on entry point to the STAR] (I think!!!). For example OCK3B at Heathrow is OCK3B whether you are landing 09L or 27L, 09R or 27R, it never changes. STAR charts are very useful as they also have the holding fixes and inbound tracks to the hold, etc. This is more advanced so don't worry too much about it now. However, if you choose to fly one day and the arrival airport is busy, ATC may ask you to hold so it's a good idea to have the chart for the STAR you are flying so that you have a rough idea of which direction the hold is and what the inbound track is to be in the hold. Again, always advise ATC if you are unsure or require help flying a hold. A good idea is to request to practice a hold when it is quite quiet so that during busier periods you know what is expected.

 

Knowing SIDs/STARs is a big advantage when flying at busier times. However, during quiet periods controllers will nearly always be happy to vector you along the SID (Standard Instrument Departure), or STAR (STandard Arrival Route) as long as you type something along the lines of "New pilot, unfamiliar with SID request vectors" in the remarks field of your Flightplan. Don't worry about not knowing them at first, we all know that new members have to start somewhere - all I would recommend though is make it known in your flightplan that you are new and controllers do take that on board and give you more "slack" when it comes to following instructions. Golden rule - if you don't understand something ask! You can never go wrong on Vatsim for asking questions to clarify and enhance knowledge!

 

I have downloaded and installed two things from the site that were marked as follows:

 

SquawkBox 3 Uploaded on Saturday, April 23, 2005

Joel DeYoung

SB3 is the long awaited new version of the SquawkBox pilot client

 

Advanced Voice Client Uploaded on Saturday, April 23, 2005

Chris Serio & Ben Supnik

New version of the voice client.

 

Question no.2 Is that all what is needed for online flying?

If you have SB3 then you do not need Advanced Voice Client (AVC) as SB3 has it's own built in voice program. Optional extras for online flying include ServInfo (http://www.avsim.com/hangar/utils/servinfo/home.htm) which can display a number of interesting stats about who is online and even represent it on a map display so you can easily see which ATC is online at any given time. I would strongly recommend buying FSNavigator (www.fsnavigator.com) which is a great flightplanning tool and also links to most autopilots to autofly your route. Also, instead of SB3 there is now another Pilot Client called FSInn (http://www.mcdu.com/en/download.php). Personal preference which one you use - I use SB3 because it has an interface I am familiar with and like better. Best you see both programmes though and make your own choice.

 

Question no. 3 Do I need to join another sub division? I think I registered in the Europe division and I hope that doesn't mean I am confined to flying in Europe.

No you don't. For flying, it doesn't really matter which division you are in and it certainly doesn't confine you to flying in Europe. If you want to branch out in the future and control, then you will need to specifically transfer to the UK division ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming you wish to control in the UK). The way Europe is structured is with the European REGION (VATEUR) at the top, then 3 Divisions under it; Russia Division (VATRUS), UK Division (VATUK), and European DIVISION (VATEUD, incorporating all other countries).

 

Question no. 4 What do I do now?! I have read rules and all sorts of things and now want to get going!

 

I would recommend if you haven't already done so, to visit the Pilot Resource Centre (http://www.vatsim.net/prc). It has fantastically detailed guides to getting started and much more. All you need to do is register with your Vatsim ID and pick a p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]word of your choice. Also, check out the UK Pilots section available from the Vatsim UK website (http://www.vatsim-uk.org and click on Pilots). It has a lot of ATC standard routes modelled from real world routes for the UK and Europe, and further help pages should you get stuck. Failing all of that, post further questions here and/or on the UK forum by clicking the Forum link on the header of the UK website.

 

 

Hope this all helps, please feel free to add any further questions and either myself or one of the other members of this vast community will be sure to reply.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

Chris

[Benjamin Fiddes 937373]

Hello Christopher.

Thank- you very much for that detailed reply.

As about Question.1

I joined the site requested and was looking at the flight diagrams for Heathrow R27L and have some queries.

See here: http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/32LL0808.PDF

 

Firstly I don't see anything saying WOBUN2G or 1G for that matter, so I am not sure where that comes in.

Secondly when looking at that diagram what am I looking for? I am flying in to Heathrow to R27L and I pick up that chart. What information am I expected to be looking at to carry out?

The ATC I have been used to vectored me to the airport and then made me cut the ILS glidescope for the runway I intended to land on. Then when I had hit it I reported it back and then switched from Approach to Tower.

 

I can't even figure which STARS chart I would use for landing on the runway!

 

If I cannot fly Direct GPS then how do I find my way? Will ATC direct me every time I need to turn?

 

As about Question 2.

OKay - I will uninstall AVC and stick with SB3.

 

As about Question 3

So I would only need to join Vatsim-UK if I wanted to become a controller - Correct? Because I just want to fly I can go to anywhere in the world and fly under any ATc - true?

 

As about Question 4

Yes, I have joined the PRC too now. I'm reading the course right now.

[Chris Dobison 810929]

Hi Ben

 

The chart on the link you posted was the ILS/DME chart for Runway 27L at Heathrow. This one is used when completing an ILS (Instrument Landing System) approach - it has the final approach heading on and missed approach instructions (in case you can't land for whatever reason). The SID chart for the WOBUN SIDs can be found here: http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aerodromes/32LL0604.PDF - the general order for that website is:

 

Textual Data - lots of text describing the type of operation at the airport, contact telephone/fax numbers/etc etc

Aerodrome Chart

Aircraft Parking/Docking Chart

Any other taxi charts that may be required

Local CTR (Control Zone) charts

RVA Chart (Radar Vectoring Area - used by controllers)

SID charts

STAR charts

Instrument Approach charts

 

The SID charts have a diagrammatic (sp?) display of the route, then underneath they contain a short paragraph describing where to make the turns. With regards to you being vectored onto the ILS, that is exactly what will happen in Vatsim if you have ATC online. You will be instructed to intercept the Localiser at a level which will put you below the glidepath, and then told to "Descend with the ILS" which is basically changing from the LOC autopilot mode to APP .

 

For flightplans, check the routes on the Vatsim-UK website (pilot section). Failing that, there are route requests available on the Vatsim-UK forum, and failing that I would recommend you use FSNav to autogenerate a flightplan. It is not always accurate (in that some airways are one way only and it doesn't take that into account), but in the absence of a real world flight plan from the previous 2 mentioned sources it is better than nothing (or Direct GPS, which 99.9% of controllers do not like as it causes potential problems further down the line with seperation if everyone is flying direct).

 

Question 3 - correct. Unless things have changed, you do NOT have to be a member of Vatsim-UK specifically to be a pilot. No matter which division you are in, you are free to fly wherever in the world you like and can get control from whoever is online (provided you are in their airspace of course!). Don't worry too much about who covers what airspace. If you aren't sure just ask the controller and they will let you know if you are under their area of responsibility.

 

Hope that helps some more - if not please shout!

 

 

 

Chris

[Benjamin Fiddes 937373]

Hi Ben

 

For flightplans, check the routes on the Vatsim-UK website (pilot section). Failing that, there are route requests available on the Vatsim-UK forum, and failing that I would recommend you use FSNav to autogenerate a flightplan. It is not always accurate (in that some airways are one way only and it doesn't take that into account), but in the absence of a real world flight plan from the previous 2 mentioned sources it is better than nothing (or Direct GPS, which 99.9% of controllers do not like as it causes potential problems further down the line with seperation if everyone is flying direct).

 

Hi Chris,

Well I just can't make head or tail of these maps. I can see some instuctions which I can follow. I.e Not to go over 250KTS, not to go above 6000ft until otherwise instucted and perhaps a few other points. If ATC is vectoring me all the way from departure to the glideslope - why do I need to look at that bewildering map?

I will be staying out of any busy airports at the moment and will remain in the North of Scotland out of harms way.

 

I think I should get flying before trying things all smack bang whallop in one go. I can't possibly remember everything.

 

I found a route listed here: EGPC MC 240 WIK W3D INS EGPE

That is from Wick (on the tip of the UK) to Inverness which again is in the far North. I am unsure what MC stands for and for barely 70 miles FL240 is rather high up! I doubt many fly that one anyway. Can I fly that at 140 and see how I get on? I just had a look at it and despite entering in to the flight planner VOR to VOR it was still a straight line.

 

I also have a few more questions.

As a callsign is LA2691 okay to use? That was what I used to use and am kinda used to saying it.

Also where do I type in to tell the controller I am new and will not be using charts?

 

cheers,

Ben

[Michael Pike]

Hi Ben,

 

You asked about SIDs and STARs which is why you got a full explanation from Chris (a real world ATCO) but I wouldn't want you to get the idea that you have to know all that stuff perfectly before you can fly in UK airspace! To fly a 777 out of Heathrow, yes you must be able to fly the appropriate SID - FSNav is extremely useful at helping you to do that.

 

However, that's not all that VATSIM-UK is about and I would recommend working up to that gradually. Your plan to fly Wick to Inverness is a better starting point although even that requires some understanding of the airway system and instrument approaches to airports to do it properly (but not likely to be anyone around to hinder if you get it wrong). MC means minimum cruise (I think) and your standard route is telling you that for a cruising level anywhere BETWEEN MC and FL240 follow the route given. (In some cases there are different standard routes for different cruise levels).

 

But the UK often has many smaller airports manned where you can fly visually in a light aircraft - this is much simpler but you can still talk to ATC - there's no complex approach procedure to follow because you are in visual contact with the ground and not in the clouds. It's where all pilots start learning in the real world! Wick and Inverness are unlikely to be manned it's true but Aberdeen is, or used to be worked occasionally if you like that part of the world (and who wouldn't!)

 

If you care to venture South, Gloucestershire airport (EGBJ) is always manned on a Tuesday evening (by me) mainly with VFR flights (Visual Flight Rules). Only drawback is you need suitable weather - not something we can guarantee in the UK!! Do please study the charts and gradually you'll come to understand them - but expect it to take YEARS before you really know how to use them fully. Make that your aim; but please don't wait to start flying and getting involved in this wonderful pastime - we're all here to help online as well as through forums.

 

See you soon,

 

Mike Pike

[Chris Dobison 810929]

Mike has hit the nail on the head there Ben. Whilst I gave you a full explanation of SIDs/STARs, I would certainly not be expecting a newcomer to online flying to expect to fly them perfect anytime in the first 3-6 months at least!!! This is a learning environment and we all learn at different rates, so I would do as Mike recommends and fly in a light aircraft and maintain visual reference with the ground. EGBJ is a great starting point, also I have noticed Newcastle (EGNT) and Leeds (EGNM) opening more regularly, and of course my own airport Teesside/Durham Tees Valley (EGNV). Vatsim-UK also run a host of new pilot evenings, check out this thread on the UK forum: http://www.vatsim-uk.org/forum/index.php?topic=4227.0 - keep an eye on that and when a session has been agreed on for August, the thread will be updated.

 

Also, for an introduction to IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) flying - basically your airliner type flights, download the following: http://www.vatsim-uk.org/download-files/on_line_ifr_planning.zip

 

With regards to reading SID charts, if you are interested to find out how to read them it is probably best to do it on Teamspeak which is voice chat software that we use quite a lot in Vatsim UK. If you are wanting to try it out, there are some step-by-step instructions on this thread http://www.vatsim-uk.org/forum/index.php?topic=3940.0 which walks you through the download and setup of this software. Give me a shout on email ([email protected]) if you want to have a chat about this and I'll arrange a half hour on there with you to talk to you about them some more. Like I say though, don't feel it compulsary to do so - especially in the early days of flying as the brain can easily go into overload and may scare you off the whole idea anyway!

 

 

 

Best,

 

 

Chris

[Benjamin Fiddes 937373]

Thanks for the replies. I'll give them a detailed read later and see where I stand and then drop a line.

 

Thanks for your help up until now,

 

Ben

[Wycliffe Barrett]

ben

 

You seem to have had replies from seasoned flyers and controllers. like you I kept away from VATSIM for over a year even though i was a member. In the last two weeks i Have reinstalled read, listened (which is a great help) read more and even figured out SID's and STARS.

 

The golden rule is ASK also make sure you put new pilot in your Flight plan and it will all work out. For a few weeks I went onto Teamspeak and used that. It's not as professional but it certainly helps you get used to using your mic and talking in ATC speak.

 

If there is any help I can offer as a newbie then please get in touch my email is listed somewhere on this wonderful site.

[Alan Withers 923603]

Don't forget, you're 'never alone'. There are pilots on medium/long-hauls most times of the day (and night) who you can chat with.