What is the minimum requirements for a star to populate?

[Tyler Walton 1055592]

The subject says it all. I'm trying to get my STARs to populate in the flight for aircraft inbound to KMCI airport but I'm not sure what i'm doing wrong. I must be missing something because the flight plans aren't properly populating the star in the lists of inbound aircraft. So what are the conditions for ES to detect when a star has been filed?

 

For reference I am including all the info I have entered for KMCI as it is in my .ESE file:

 

[SIDSTARS]

;----------------------
;KMCI STARS
;----------------------

;KMCI BRAYMER FOUR
;--------------------
;SPINNER TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19L:BQS4:SPI UIN HUGIN BQS DONNS GAYLY FELUR
STAR:KMCI:01R:BQS4:SPI UIN HUGIN BQS DONNS MATTZ BYGEC SPICY RIBBS
STAR:KMCI:09:BQS4:SPI UIN HUGIN BQS DONNS PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:BQS4:SPI UIN HUGIN BQS DONNS MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

;KIRKSVILLE TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19L:BQS4:IRK FONIX BQS DONNS GAYLY FELUR
STAR:KMCI:01R:BQS4:IRK FONIX BQS DONNS MATTZ BYGEC SPICY RIBBS
STAR:KMCI:09:BQS4:IRK FONIX BQS DONNS PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:BQS4:IRK FONIX BQS DONNS MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

;MACON TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19L:BQS4:MCM CORIM BQS DONNS GAYLY FELUR
STAR:KMCI:01R:BQS4:MCM CORIM BQS DONNS MATTZ BYGEC SPICY RIBBS
STAR:KMCI:09:BQS4:MCM CORIM BQS DONNS PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:BQS4:MCM CORIM BQS DONNS MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

;KMCI JAYHAW SIX
;--------------------
;EMPORIA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:JHAWK6:EMP JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:JHAWK6:EMP JHAWK HOOZE CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:JHAWK6:EMP JHAWK HOOZE MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:JHAWK6:EMP JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS ANX CARBB DUSTN

;CHANUTE TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:JHAWK6:CNU JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:JHAWK6:CNU JHAWK HOOZE CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:JHAWK6:CNU JHAWK HOOZE MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:JHAWK6:CNU JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS ANX CARBB DUSTN

;KMCI ROBINSON THREE
;---------------------
;FORT DODGE TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA3:FOD KARAA RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA3:FOD KARAA RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA3:FOD KARAA RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA3:FOD KARAA RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

;PAWNEE CITY TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA3:PWE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA3:PWE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA3:PWE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA3:PWE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

;KMCI TYGER SIX
;---------------------
;SPRINGFIELD TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19L:TYGER6:SGF KRAZO TYGER TRIKE MORAY SLABB GAYLY FELUR
STAR:KMCI:01R:TYGER6:SGF KRAZO TYGER TRIKE SPICY RIBBS
STAR:KMCI:09:TYGER6:SGF KRAZO TYGER TRIKE MORAY SLABB MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:TYGER6:SGF KRAZO TYGER ANX CARBB DUSTN

;----------------------
;KMCI SIDS
;----------------------

;KMCI CHIEF THREE DEPARTURE
;----------------------
;ST. JOSEPH TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:CHIEF3:MCI STJ
SID:KMCI:19R:CHIEF3:MCI STJ
SID:KMCI:01L:CHIEF3:MCI STJ
SID:KMCI:01R:CHIEF3:MCI STJ
SID:KMCI:09:CHIEF3:MCI STJ
SID:KMCI:27:CHIEF3:MCI STJ

;CATTS TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:CHIEF3:MCI CATTS
SID:KMCI:19R:CHIEF3:MCI CATTS
SID:KMCI:01L:CHIEF3:MCI CATTS
SID:KMCI:01R:CHIEF3:MCI CATTS
SID:KMCI:09:CHIEF3:MCI CATTS
SID:KMCI:27:CHIEF3:MCI CATTS

;LAKES FIVE DEPARTURE
;----------------------
;SPINNER TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:LAKES5:MCI TWAIN SPI
SID:KMCI:19R:LAKES5:MCI TWAIN SPI
SID:KMCI:01L:LAKES5:MCI TWAIN SPI
SID:KMCI:01R:LAKES5:MCI TWAIN SPI
SID:KMCI:09:LAKES5:MCI TWAIN SPI
SID:KMCI:27:LAKES5:MCI TWAIN SPI

;COLUMBIA TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:LAKES5:MCI ANX FRANC COU
SID:KMCI:19R:LAKES5:MCI ANX FRANC COU
SID:KMCI:01L:LAKES5:MCI ANX FRANC COU
SID:KMCI:01R:LAKES5:MCI ANX FRANC COU
SID:KMCI:09:LAKES5:MCI ANX FRANC COU
SID:KMCI:27:LAKES5:MCI ANX FRANC COU

;RACER THREE DEPARTURE
;-----------------------
;DOSOA TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:RACER3:MCI DOSOA
SID:KMCI:19R:RACER3:MCI DOSOA
SID:KMCI:01L:RACER3:MCI DOSOA
SID:KMCI:01R:RACER3:MCI DOSOA
SID:KMCI:09:RACER3:MCI DOSOA
SID:KMCI:27:RACER3:MCI DOSOA

;SPRINGFIELD TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:RACER3:MCI BUM SGF
SID:KMCI:19R:RACER3:MCI BUM SGF
SID:KMCI:01L:RACER3:MCI BUM SGF
SID:KMCI:01R:RACER3:MCI BUM SGF
SID:KMCI:09:RACER3:MCI BUM SGF
SID:KMCI:27:RACER3:MCI BUM SGF

;ROYAL THREE DEPARTURE
;---------------------
;TONCE TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:ROYAL3:MCI JDOGG TONCE
SID:KMCI:19R:ROYAL3:MCI JDOGG TONCE
SID:KMCI:01L:ROYAL3:MCI JDOGG TONCE
SID:KMCI:01R:ROYAL3:MCI JDOGG TONCE
SID:KMCI:09:ROYAL3:MCI JDOGG TONCE
SID:KMCI:27:ROYAL3:MCI JDOGG TONCE

;JTHRO TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:ROYAL3:MCI CAYKO JTHRO
SID:KMCI:19R:ROYAL3:MCI CAYKO JTHRO
SID:KMCI:01L:ROYAL3:MCI CAYKO JTHRO
SID:KMCI:01R:ROYAL3:MCI CAYKO JTHRO
SID:KMCI:09:ROYAL3:MCI CAYKO JTHRO
SID:KMCI:27:ROYAL3:MCI CAYKO JTHRO

;TIFTO TWO DEPARTURE
;--------------------
;TIFTO TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:TIFTO2:MCI TIFTO
SID:KMCI:19R:TIFTO2:MCI TIFTO
SID:KMCI:01L:TIFTO2:MCI TIFTO
SID:KMCI:01R:TIFTO2:MCI TIFTO
SID:KMCI:09:TIFTO2:MCI TIFTO
SID:KMCI:27:TIFTO2:MCI TIFTO

;WILDCAT TWO DEPARTURE
;--------------------
;SALINA TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN SLN
SID:KMCI:19R:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN SLN
SID:KMCI:01L:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN SLN
SID:KMCI:01R:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN SLN
SID:KMCI:09:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN SLN
SID:KMCI:27:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN SLN

;WICHITA TRANSITION
SID:KMCI:19L:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN ICT
SID:KMCI:19R:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN ICT
SID:KMCI:01L:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN ICT
SID:KMCI:01R:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN ICT
SID:KMCI:09:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN ICT
SID:KMCI:27:TIFTO2:MCI KENTN ICT

 

Obviously I will have issues with the multiple transition type STARs. I read that this is something that will make it pick the wrong star, but at this point it's not picking ANY star for aircraft. The test aircraft I've been using have been inbound from north korea so i'm not sure if the problem lies with the fact they're litterally on the other side of the planet (technically the other side of the international date line IE meridian 180). I have active runways [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned. 19L and 19R [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned. There are no COPX areas defined so i'm not sure if that matters or not. I was signed into a position, (MCI_APP). The aircraft was inside my visible distance (I had an [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istant sign in with FSX and setup a flightplan using a star at a location near the airport to eliminate the "opposite side of the world" problem). I also do not see stars while in offline mode. Aircraft had filed "OVR.RBA3" I modified it to "OVR RBA3" with no change. There was also another aircraft with "FOB RBA3" which also did not display.

 

If you need more info let me know. I hope this helps troubleshoot the problem.

 

Tyler Walton

-vZKC Facility Engineer

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

Ok first you don't have defined "FOB RBA3" you have FOD

 

STAR/SID can be defined with one point only...BUT if you define more the one..then in order ES to recognize it the FP route has to be the same.

Now to your case:

"OVR RBA3" I guess you want to show

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

..well it will not... because you don't have anything RBA3 in your definition. ES searches for the last part of the route and compare it to the STARs so try to remove the RBA3 and it would show a STAR... If you want to set the STAR manually, you can do it and from the FP route just add OVR RBA3/19R

[Tyler Walton 1055592]

Ok first you don't have defined "FOB RBA3" you have FOD

 

Ok well that was a typo. FOD is the proper transition for the star on the robinson 3 arrival. So either they mistyped in their flight plan or I mistyped it when I was making the post. (I think the latter is accurate)

 

STAR/SID can be defined with one point only...BUT if you define more the one..then in order ES to recognize it the FP route has to be the same.

Now to your case:

"OVR RBA3" I guess you want to show

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA3:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

..well it will not... because you don't have anything RBA3 in your definition. ES searches for the last part of the route and compare it to the STARs so try to remove the RBA3 and it would show a STAR... If you want to set the STAR manually, you can do it and from the FP route just add OVR RBA3/19R

 

This part I'm not so sure about here. So you're saying I should remove the "3" making it "RBA" or the whole RBA3 from the definition? This particular transition doesn't start at RBA, RBA is the point where the other transitions meet.

 

This?

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

 

or this?

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

 

or this?

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:OVR:HILDE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:OVR:HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:OVR:HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:OVR:HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

 

I thought that if someone filed OVR RBA3 that it would look through the .ese file for RBA3 and match it up with a STAR from the lists based on what runways were active. For instance if 01L was active it would route the aircraft OVR HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL and essentially amend the plan to be exactly that. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how the format is.

 

::::

 

I'm going by that which is from the euroscope wiki. The whole section is rather vegue as far as I can tell, but it seemed rather straight forward. I guess the problem lies in where our arrivals aren't RNAV and each routing isn't set to a spacific runway, we kind of have to make it up at the end on how to get to the runway from the final point in the STAR to the IAF in the ILS for that runway...

[Tyler Walton 1055592]

OK i re-read the wiki. I see where I have gone wrong. The final point of "rba3" that's filed in the route has to be IN the route somehow or it doesn't know what to do with itself.

 

So couldn't I just do this:

 

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA3:RBA3 HILDE RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA3:RBA3 HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA3:RBA3 HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA3:RBA3 HILDE RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

 

RBA is one of the waypoints but it's not the FIRST one. Technically the "hilde" fix doesn't need to be there, it's more or less a point between OVR and RBA that's pretty much a straight line anyway. I could just put this I suppose:

 

;OMAHA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:RBA3:RBA3 RBA JUDAA CAMDO HNZLY
STAR:KMCI:01L:RBA3:RBA3 RBA JUDAA PEGGI HUGGY CYPRE SQIRL
STAR:KMCI:09:RBA3:RBA3 RBA JUDAA PEGGI MAXEE JAYBA
STAR:KMCI:27:RBA3:RBA3 RBA JUDAA PEGGI MATTZ CARBB DUSTN

 

I would guess it would link OVR with RBA skipping the RBA3 point since it doesn't technically exisit. Or would that not work?

[Tyler Walton 1055592]

Ok here's one. It just so happens that right now we've got a bunch of aircraft inbound to KMCI so I'm able to test this stuff pretty well. NONE of the arrivals are working so far.

 

I had one guy misfile for this route:

 

+SJN SJN ABQ J18 GCK J110 FRACA EMP JHAWK

 

According to what you said earlier that the JHAWK6 would have to be somewhere in the route. Well in this case JHAWK is actually IN the route and it still does not display his JHAWK6 arrival properly even though jhawk is in there along with EMP as you can see from my above post... I even tried to manually refile it like you suggested to this:

 

+SJN SJN ABQ J18 GCK J110 FRACA EMP JHAWK6/19R

 

This still did not show up properly in the listing and didn't show the route properly. So I guess i'm still not understanding fully what it is I have to do to make this work. Should i be able to see arrivals from offline mode? Do I need to be signed in at least as observer, do I need to be on a live position? Do I need to have the aircraft within visible distance for it to populate the star? What am I doing wrong?

[Jonas Eberle]

You defined:

;KMCI JAYHAW SIX
;--------------------
;EMPORIA TRANSITION
STAR:KMCI:19R:JHAWK6:EMP JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS CAMDO HNZLY

This tries to add "JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS CAMDO HNZLY" wherever a plane is inbound KMCI and runway 19R is active AND the LAST POINT of the route is "EMP".

What you would like to define is:

STAR:KMCI:19R:JHAWK6:JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS CAMDO HNZLY

 

You could add the latter if you want JHAWK6 also automatically for flightplans ending in "EMP".

[Tyler Walton 1055592]

That's the problem. I'm not sure how they do it overseas but the last point is the star not the transition. "emp jhawk6" is the last stuff on the flight plan. So JHAWK6 is the "last" point in the flight plan not EMP. Are you saying that EMP is the official last point? How does it know that jhawk = jhawk6? According to the wiki, the STAR entry in the .ese file looks for any point that is in the flight plan:

 

The first line that completes all conditions will be chosen as the correct routing. The type of route can be SID or STAR and declares whether the next condition, airport, should be the departure or the arrival airport for that aircraft. The airport is declared as the full ICAO code for that airport. The next condition is the runway in use. Declare a new line for each runway that uses that respective routing. The name will be the name of the SID/STAR with the discrete identifier. The route will be declared by any FIX, VOR or NDB that makes part of the routing with spaces between each route element.

 

By that last line it sounds like it compares the last entry prior to the STAR definition (ie JHAWK6) and compares it to the route in the STAR entry. If it finds it then it uses that star. Technically it sounds like you should be able to file for "HOOZE" as your last waypoint and it should still find JHAWK6 arrival as the STAR.

 

I don't see how I have done anything outside the realm of what the WIKI is saying...?? Is the wiki not updated from 3.0 or something?

 

This still isn't answering the main question i've asked. What do i have to do to be ABLE to see the star. I don't see how I've done anything wrong in the list. EMP is the last entry in the flight plan, and EMP is the first entry in the star, I don't see how this isn't working. You guys are saying I need to have it in there but I already have it in there...???

 

Also keep in mind that the JHAWK6 has two transitions: CNU and EMP, so it would need to know that anyone flying either of those two points would end up on this route.

[Karl Kornel 964857]

<<>>

I think we've gotten way off point, as I think the actual problem is alot simpler!

 

I don't see how I've done anything wrong in the list. EMP is the last entry in the flight plan, and EMP is the first entry in the star, I don't see how this isn't working. You guys are saying I need to have it in there but I already have it in there...???

 

<<>>

 

I think we need to look back at the original post:

 

[SIDSTARS]
<<<snip>>>

 

I think that line needs to be changed to the following:

 

[SIDSSTARS]

 

It's a small difference, and I am kindof suprised that there was no warnings in the ES messages window, but I believe this is the source of the problems!

[Jonas Eberle]

This might go a bit off-topic, as we are towards the US-STAR/transition talk.

 

Well, what ES can is adding a set of waypoints after a given route when the last fix/runway/airport matched. This ES-STAR-thing does not happen in the middle, like in your example "OVR RBA3": You should write an SID-rule that starts with "RBA3", not "OVR", to match that line. When things get converted to raw waypoints (after the airways and SIDSTARS are processed), I think RBA3 would just be ignored because no waypoint with that name is there. So everything will work exactly as you expected it!

 

Second approach to US-STARs: One could try to edit the AIRWAY.txt- file and see how ES behaves if an RBA3 airway is defined there

[Tyler Walton 1055592]

<<>>

I think we've gotten way off point, as I think the actual problem is alot simpler!

 

I don't see how I've done anything wrong in the list. EMP is the last entry in the flight plan, and EMP is the first entry in the star, I don't see how this isn't working. You guys are saying I need to have it in there but I already have it in there...???

 

<<>>

 

I think we need to look back at the original post:

 

[SIDSTARS]
<<<snip>>>

 

I think that line needs to be changed to the following:

 

[SIDSSTARS]

 

It's a small difference, and I am kindof suprised that there was no warnings in the ES messages window, but I believe this is the source of the problems!

 

Damnit karl!! Where the hell have you been! That fixed it...

I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong!! I set it up EXACTLY like the guides said and I just couldn't get why it wasn't working. I'm shocked as well being that losing a single "S" was the error and it wasn't reported when I loaded the sector file. I'm thinking that we need to have a check in the code for things encased in [brackets] to be checked for acceptable things and throwing an error to the user if something in brackets isn't valid so this error won't get missed in the future.

 

This might go a bit off-topic, as we are towards the US-STAR/transition talk.

 

Well, what ES can is adding a set of waypoints after a given route when the last fix/runway/airport matched. This ES-STAR-thing does not happen in the middle, like in your example "OVR RBA3": You should write an SID-rule that starts with "RBA3", not "OVR", to match that line. When things get converted to raw waypoints (after the airways and SIDSTARS are processed), I think RBA3 would just be ignored because no waypoint with that name is there. So everything will work exactly as you expected it!

 

Second approach to US-STARs: One could try to edit the AIRWAY.txt- file and see how ES behaves if an RBA3 airway is defined there

 

Sorry but this is wrong. Karl was right and I misspelled the header for sids/stars. After I fixed that the whole thing worked using my original code from above. What it does is exactly like I thought it would do. It looks for "jhawk6" in my list of sids/stars and then compares the last entry prior to jhawk6 (EMP) to an entry in the Sid/Star route and if it finds something that matches it replaces the JHAWK6 with the proper routing based off which runway is active (19R) from the last point prior to JHAWK6 thus changing the flight plan from:

 

SJN SJN ABQ J18 GCK J110 FRACA EMP JHAWK6

 

to

 

SJN SJN ABQ J18 GCK J110 FRACA EMP JHAWK HOOZE RUGBB NOAHS CAMDO HNZLY

 

But it doesn't seem to change the flight plan's original last entry to the presumed SJN SJN ABQ J18 GCK J110 FRACA EMP JHAWK6/19R. In mine it actually left that alone and just added the waypoints in the JHAWK6 routing to the bottom half of the flight planner and plotted the course properly in the flight path on the screen when I right click the alt. I'm guessing that bug has been fixed...but I'm not sure.

 

Thanks to all those who helped. A big thanks to Karl for fixing yet another issue of mine. U Rock!